[Noisebridge-discuss] noisebridge visitor / noob policy progress

Jake jake at spaz.org
Tue Dec 24 01:27:27 UTC 2013


On Mon, 23 Dec 2013, Johny Radio wrote:

> On 12/23/2013 3:06:54 PM, "Jake" <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> I don't think we need to automatically keep people out, except with the 
>> gate which has the potential of working pretty well if it is physically 
>> maintained more than it is.
>
> The gate does not keep anyone out, whether it's working or not. They just get 
> buzzed in, or come in when somebody else leaves. Do you disagree?

yes i disagree.  People can only buzz others in if they have a code. 
Since they're using their code, they're making a conscious decision at 
some level to let a person in, and they are in some small sense 
responsible for that person.

As for people coming in on the heels of others, yes it happens but I don't 
see a good solution for it at this time until the culture changes so that 
there is more engagement between people who are, for example, coming 
through the door together.  When I let someone come through the door with 
me I usually try to talk to them a little bit and learn something about 
them.  So far I have not had to ask any of those people not to come in 
with me.

The important thing to keep in mind is that there is so much low hanging 
fruit in terms of gate repair.  Right now the gate doesn't even latch 
unless you push it closed.  It needs oil in the latch, and adjustment or 
repair of the door-closer mechanism above.

>> I believe we can and should err on the side of letting people in rather 
>> than keeping them out. I think the change we need to make is in discussing 
>> the "right" to be at noisebridge after you have gotten in. I want to make 
>> noisebridge a welcoming place for newcomers, but once a person has been 
>> introduced to the space and given the opportunity to participate in a good 
>> way, including becoming an associate member if they want, they will 
>> understand that coming to noisebridge is not a god-given right regardless 
>> of your behavior. After people have found the space and learned about it, 
>> if they choose to go against our community standards in any way, general or 
>> specific, the community has the right to ask them to leave, without a 
>> specific "excuse" like "you left food in the kitchen" or "you were caught 
>> sleeping".
>
> All you just described is the current status quo. Do you disagree?

I believe that the status quo is easily interpreted to default to 
unwelcome, meaning that we need to change our wording to clarify welcoming 
to newcomers.  If we do that we will have more people coming who are good 
for noisebridge and get more involved, including becoming associate 
members, and that will improve everything.

I do agree that recent changes have helped to reduce the false belief that 
everyone has a right to noisebridge regardless of behavior or acceptance 
by the community.

>> As for your last suggestion, about a process and incentives for generating 
>> hands-on help in the space, I truly believe that inclusion (by the 
>> associate membership invitation extended to everyone) and improved quality 
>> of the space resulting from the new policies will get us more people and 
>> more hands.
>
> Even without AM's, Nb already HAS radical inclusion. Do you disagree?
>
> Radical inclusion has not produced helpers.  Do you disagree?

I don't think noisebridge should practice radical inclusion, and i think 
that when we have, it has not resulted in improved conditions.


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