[Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
danny at spesh.com
Fri Jun 21 03:09:33 UTC 2013
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The fact that the building gets more respect than people who are sick of
> its classism is part of the problem too. Deal with the rapist. The issue
> would have happened either way, being that Dru fits the requirements most
> elites hold over the space, maybe not to who it did, but someone else
> people would have actually cared about.
As you know, Noisebridge is a do-acracy. Is there something that is
stopping you from working on this problem? I and people I know have worked
on several cases like this, which led to people being banned, and other
spaces being warned of those people's behaviour. It's hard work, it puts
you under suspicion of working under an agenda, and loses you friends.
You've been here a long time. You clearly make claims of wanting to work on
social justice topics. Why have you, to my knowledge, never done this work?
> At least completely and utterly erase any leftist ties this place claims,
> because like stalinism, this shit is too capitalist to be leftist.
We never had any leftist ties. We have a wide range of political opinions
here, mostly more unorthodox, and the organization itself is apolitical.
Maybe you can edit the wiki to better make that clear?
You can totally put that we're a classist, building-centric bunch of
exclusionists. Frankly at this point it would really help. I will be honest
here and say that, in sort of reversal of you, I have become so
disillusioned by what I have seen by people in the space who adopt a
specifically political stance of the world, that I am about done with it.
God this board is such a headache I dont want to talk to most of you, I am
> not in that headspace, just put this back on topic of DREW and Ill debate
> this other shit with others once I have the spoons
You've been hanging out in the space a *really* long time. I've never
actually seen you work on a project. What is it that you expect from the
space? What do you want to do?
Here is what I think, brutally. I think you've spent a long time at
Noisebridge, without finding out about what Noisebridge is. I think you
hang about the space as a social environment without really contributing
anything to its core work. I think your expectation that others will deal
with problems that arise is part of the attitude that leads to others
exploiting the space for their own ends.
I think you might find other spaces that are explicitly political, aimed at
helping the homeless, or have an social justice aim.
As I said before, if you don't want to deal with a stupid science lab, you
should go somewhere else. We're a stupid science lab.
> *From:* Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com>
> *To:* Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 20, 2013 6:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] It has come to my attention that...
> Oh, and I should probably say despite my ranting and despite the serious
> tone of this email, I can almost certainly be persuaded back from my
> descent into Stalinism and back to joyous acceptance of all Noisebridge's
> craziness, in all its forms. I'm pretty sure it would be really easy.
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Danny O'Brien <danny at spesh.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Bill Gag <billgag11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The fact that this discussion has gone from Dru's behavior to more people
> bitching about their stupid science lab being used as a resource by
> homeless people is disgusting, Dru's behavior is terrible even if the space
> was a fucking office.
> The fact that every discussion has to be used to define the space is
> irritating enough but this discussion is no place for that shit, get the
> fuck out of here and be safe at home.
> Hey Kim,
> You're right that it's important to make the stupid science lab safe for
> everyone. But, speaking personally, I can't do that *and* make it as a
> resource for homeless people or people who are just generally hanging out.
> It's too much. It takes a lot of time and energy to deal with the normal
> traumatastic drama that emerges from dealing with all the problems that
> hacker culture has, *and* deal with people who are trying to deal with a
> bunch of other societal issues, like poverty, homelessness and mental
> illness, *plus* the people who prey on open spaces and open communities in
> It's a stupid science lab, but that's all it is meant to be. We had a
> science lab experiment trying to make it welcoming by just being open all
> the time so that anyone could come in at any time, but in the end that just
> end up excluding whole classes of people (including a lot of whiteboy
> hackers, but also hackers of every other kind), and constructing an
> atmosphere of entitlement with a bunch of people who aren't doing the stuff
> that the place is designed to encourage.
> I'm burned out, because the place needs smart, enthusiastic, vaguely sane
> people to help things run smoothly, and a great deal of my time is
> dominated by the consequences of people who clutch hold of it for other
> reasons than it was designed for, and need to, frankly, sort their shit out
> somewhere else.
> You've only just subscribe to nb-discuss, Kim, but you know that I've
> invested a lot of time social sysadminning trying to sort out problems
> among people and mediate solutions. I don't really often go off on one like
> this. But really, I have to draw the line somewhere.
> So here's one the new lines I'm drawing for myself. If you think that this
> is a "stupid science lab", please leave. Anyone who seriously says that
> for a moment is not welcome by me, anymore. You should go. There are other
> places you can go, less full of horrible science geeks. There are other
> places you can build yourself, that might be more welcoming.
> We have a lot of problems, and we can't solve them all, and right now, we
> can't solve yours, particularly when you're actively scorning the very
> reason we wanted to share our space with you.
> I'm sorry. Please go.
> The fact is, that making the space exclusive or anything of that sort
> would NOT solve this problem, the presence of predatory men and people
> there to defend them is, and no matter how you view the space, this needs
> to be dealt with, because as long as humans use noisebridge there will be
> this sorta shit.
> Because its not a safe space. Its a hostile one, only safe for white men
> with houses or jobs. Until that changes, this shit will continue. The
> argument over the use of the space is merely an extension of this shit
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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