[Noisebridge-discuss] anti-anonymity proposals
jim at systemateka.com
Sat Nov 16 04:36:30 UTC 2013
JS: I'll try not to belabor my defense of my
beliefs. My comments interspersed below.
On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 15:27 -0800, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
> Jesus fucking Christ.
> Noisebridge is dead.
> Jim, you ... I don't even. There are so many problems with what you
> have written that I honestly believe you need to hire someone to help
> you grok what the fuck. Because the amount of education you need about
> what the experiences of others are like, about what a 'community'
> might BE or BE FOR or WHO might want to use it FOR WHAT or HOW....
> and the idea that you could tell someone else not to talk to the
> community so THEY don't feel disempowered is deeply structurally
> flawed.... that I just don't even.
JS: Yes, I know you don't. I suspect you and perhaps
others have misconstrued what I wrote. I'm for
personal strength first, and from that comes a
strong community. My view is that people have run
to the community prematurely, to their own detriment.
> I came to Noisebridge and found a huge community of technically
> engaged wonderful hacker friends who bent over backwards to teach me
> how to work in hardware, with zero social expectations or assholery.
JS: me, too.
> That place is gone.
JS: I'm not sure, there are lots of very fine
people still at noisebridge.
> Perhaps 2169 will continue but a community where the old hands present
> think assault should be dealt with in isolation,
JS: assault should not be dealt with in isolation.
> and the old hands absent feel entitled to weigh in against reform
> measures aimed at REDUCING INCIDENCES OF ASSAULT without constructive
> input, is no place I want to support.
JS: I'm against formality in general; I'm for
collaboration, affection, acceptance, mutual
support; I think having policies is a dangerous
practice, partly because the fact of the policy
substitutes for understanding and action
appropriate to situations, partly because the
policy may, unfortunately, be seen as a
substitute for one's own action and one's own
sense of self-worth.
> On Nov 15, 2013 2:29 PM, "Snail" <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:13 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com>
> As to females being harassed, for cases of
> crude coppings of feels, I dislike taht female
> turning to the community for support; I would
> eagerly defend any female who hauled off and
> slugged whoever copped a feel or to go get some
> friends and return to verbally educate the
> offender: it's dis-empowering to perceive one's
> self as a victim and turn to a community for
> support for what is an individual incident.
> Whoa - whoa whoa whoa - whoaaaaa...
> Time out - did you really just say that women who get groped
> ("cases of crude coppings of feels") should not ask the
> community to help them out? And you believe that it's
> disempowering somehow??
> And that people should just punch people or deal with it on
> their own? Is this really what you're suggesting?
> There will be no way fully to suppress such
> actions taken by horney and inconsiderate
> personages, policies and rules and committee
> resolutions aside (far, far aside, I hope).
> I can't even. Here's a good way to suppress the actions of
> "horney" or inconsiderate people: never let them back in
> Noisebridge because that's a terrible excuse for their
> Please ask yourself if you are prone to
> express yourself when you believe you have the
> "high ground" and can properly scold others. I.e.,
> are you living too much with anger?
> With the rage of a thousand burning stars.
> TO EVERYONE ELSE READING THIS - There are lots of people in
> the community at large who will help you out if someone is
> creeping on you or worse, whether you are "taht females" or
> just a plain ol' human being! Don't let what Jim says dissuade
> you from reporting harassment or assault or pointing out
> creepers! This is not an opinion everyone here carries. Please
> don't ever feel like it's your fault or that you're required
> to punch people - it's a valid and rational response to remove
> yourself from a dangerous situation and try to sort things out
> later from a safe place rather than confront your
> harasser/assaulter. If someone is creeping on you, they are
> pretty much always creeping on OTHERS, too, so you are not
> alone or stuck in some isolated personal incident! And as a
> community we can try to make Noisebridge a safer place for
> Also, women really appreciate being called women and not
> "females". Do you go around saying "the males" when referring
> to men? Probably not.
> Angry forever,
> ............. _ at y
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