[Noisebridge-discuss] anti-anonymity proposals
jim at systemateka.com
Sat Nov 16 05:27:33 UTC 2013
JS: my replies interspersed below:
On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 20:52 -0800, Snail wrote:
> I am not sure I understand completely why you believe an
> anti-harassment policy is toxic or that having a supportive community
> is disempowering, but please feel free to elaborate. I have plenty of
> time to wait for you to compose an e-mail if you wish to elaborate
JS: I'm taking you seriously, and thank you. I can
only speak for myself, of course, and can only
empathize with others to a degree.
An anti-harassment policy, it seems to me, as I
wrote in an earlier reply, may be mis-applied or
prematurely applied. Community response can easily
be overly harsh. I think this has been the case
several times in NB history, very sadly for all
Someone who needs support may reach too
quickly for formal support and miss an opportunity
to discover one's own inner strengths. I think
this is common and certainly has happened way too
often with me.
A supportive community is a great thing. In even
the best cases community support seems inadequate to
everyones' needs. I'm all for a supportive community
and tho't my initial email was crystal clear (it
obviously was not).
My objection is not to supportiveness but to
formalizing supportiveness, because I believe
formalizing anything pretty much ossifies it.
Any well-intentioned rule can be mis-interpreted,
deliberately or inadvertently, possibly because its
meaning becomes skewed over time.
> As for why you prefer to call a person "female" rather than "woman",
> even if they've requested you not because it feels dehumanizing, I
> simply must ask - are you or are you not in fact a Ferengi.
JS: I don't know what is a Ferengi (and I don't want
to look up the meaning--it seems likely odious).
No one has asked that I refer to him or her as a
woman or anything else. Should someone do so, I would
try to avoid a construction that requires such
designation because the term is offensive to me,
fairly deeply (as is "man"). I understand and
sympathize if you feel the term "female" is
dehumanizing and will not use it to address you.
I claim the right to use it in general speech as
it seems entirely unoffensive and useful (female dogs,
cats, humans, spiders flowers..., and the male
counterparts, of course).
This particular issue may reveal some troubling
aspects of community support:
I say "female" and you say "tomahto" ("woman",
pardon the whimsy). Do I not deserve support to
use words that are comfortable for me, and do you
not deserve support to use words that are
comfortable for you? How to resolve these
differences? Submit to majority rule? Not if we
take consensus seriously. Can you imagine that you
and I take this issue to a Tuesday night meeting
and ask for community resolution? I think some
people would take your side; it's possible that
maybe some would take mine; would the discussion
waste time and divide us all?
I hope you'll reply.
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:49 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> No, I am not trolling. I don't get trolling.
> At best trolling seems stupid.
> I'm trying to express my real beliefs, and
> my reading of your and other responses is that
> I have not properly communicated what I mean.
> I had hoped the reply I made to your first
> response would make some sense.
> On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 20:27 -0800, Snail wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:24 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com>
> > > Also, women really appreciate being called women
> and not
> > "females". Do
> > > you go around saying "the males" when referring to
> > Probably not.
> > >
> > My first preferences are "boys" and "girls", then
> > and "gals" and "males" and "females". I dislike the
> > "men" and "women" because I think those terms bring
> > a lot of toxic baggage.
> > Are you trolling us.
> > --
> > -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> > ............. _ at y
> > http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> ............. _ at y
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