[Noisebridge-discuss] anti-anonymity proposals

jim jim at systemateka.com
Sat Nov 16 05:27:33 UTC 2013


JS: my replies interspersed below: 


On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 20:52 -0800, Snail wrote:
> I am not sure I understand completely why you believe an
> anti-harassment policy is toxic or that having a supportive community
> is disempowering, but please feel free to elaborate. I have plenty of
> time to wait for you to compose an e-mail if you wish to elaborate
> further.
JS: I'm taking you seriously, and thank you. I can 
only speak for myself, of course, and can only 
empathize with others to a degree. 

    An anti-harassment policy, it seems to me, as I 
wrote in an earlier reply, may be mis-applied or 
prematurely applied. Community response can easily 
be overly harsh. I think this has been the case 
several times in NB history, very sadly for all 
of us. 
    Someone who needs support may reach too 
quickly for formal support and miss an opportunity 
to discover one's own inner strengths. I think 
this is common and certainly has happened way too 
often with me. 

    A supportive community is a great thing. In even 
the best cases community support seems inadequate to 
everyones' needs. I'm all for a supportive community 
and tho't my initial email was crystal clear (it 
obviously was not). 
    My objection is not to supportiveness but to 
formalizing supportiveness, because I believe 
formalizing anything pretty much ossifies it. 
    Any well-intentioned rule can be mis-interpreted, 
deliberately or inadvertently, possibly because its 
meaning becomes skewed over time. 

> 
> As for why you prefer to call a person "female" rather than "woman",
> even if they've requested you not because it feels dehumanizing, I
> simply must ask - are you or are you not in fact a Ferengi.
JS: I don't know what is a Ferengi (and I don't want 
to look up the meaning--it seems likely odious). 
    No one has asked that I refer to him or her as a 
woman or anything else. Should someone do so, I would 
try to avoid a construction that requires such 
designation because the term is offensive to me, 
fairly deeply (as is "man"). I understand and 
sympathize if you feel the term "female" is 
dehumanizing and will not use it to address you. 
    I claim the right to use it in general speech as 
it seems entirely unoffensive and useful (female dogs, 
cats, humans, spiders flowers..., and the male 
counterparts, of course). 
    This particular issue may reveal some troubling 
aspects of community support: 
    I say "female" and you say "tomahto" ("woman", 
pardon the whimsy). Do I not deserve support to 
use words that are comfortable for me, and do you 
not deserve support to use words that are 
comfortable for you? How to resolve these 
differences? Submit to majority rule? Not if we 
take consensus seriously. Can you imagine that you 
and I take this issue to a Tuesday night meeting 
and ask for community resolution? I think some 
people would take your side; it's possible that 
maybe some would take mine; would the discussion 
waste time and divide us all? 

I hope you'll reply. 


> 
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:49 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>         
>             No, I am not trolling. I don't get trolling.
>         At best trolling seems stupid.
>             I'm trying to express my real beliefs, and
>         my reading of your and other responses is that
>         I have not properly communicated what I mean.
>             I had hoped the reply I made to your first
>         response would make some sense.
>         
>         
>         
>         On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 20:27 -0800, Snail wrote:
>         > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:24 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com>
>         wrote:
>         >         > Also, women really appreciate being called women
>         and not
>         >         "females". Do
>         >         > you go around saying "the males" when referring to
>         men?
>         >         Probably not.
>         >         >
>         >
>         >         My first preferences are "boys" and "girls", then
>         "guys"
>         >         and "gals" and "males" and "females". I dislike the
>         terms
>         >         "men" and "women" because I think those terms bring
>         along
>         >         a lot of toxic baggage.
>         >
>         >
>         > Are you trolling us.
>         >
>         > --
>         > -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>         > ............. _ at y
>         > http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>         >
>         
>         > _______________________________________________
>         > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>         > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>         >
>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>         
>         
>         
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> ............. _ at y
> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss




More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list