[Noisebridge-discuss] anti-anonymity proposals

jim jim at systemateka.com
Sun Nov 17 18:42:04 UTC 2013


thank you. 


On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 08:07 -0800, Jeffrey Carl Faden wrote:
> Sure:
> 
> 
> https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-October/039856.html
> 
> 
> 
> (See previous and next messages as well.)
> 
> 
> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:39 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>         
>         I'm interested, can you give me a date or
>         subject heading so I can find it?
>         
>         
>         
>         On Sat, 2013-11-16 at 17:53 -0800, Jeffrey Carl Faden wrote:
>         > I have actually invoked the policy when a discussion arose
>         using
>         > harmful language on the mailing list. Everyone involved
>         learned a
>         > valuable lesson about friendship.
>         >
>         >
>         > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 5:28 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com>
>         wrote:
>         >
>         >         How's it working out in practice?
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >         On Sat, 2013-11-16 at 16:31 -0800, Hannah Grimm
>         wrote:
>         >         > You know what actions I've taken in response to
>         harassment
>         >         that have
>         >         > felt really empowering, Jim?
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         > Getting an anti-harassment policy passed.
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 3:59 PM, jim
>         <jim at systemateka.com>
>         >         wrote:
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         >         My replies interspersed below:
>         >         >
>         >         >         On Sat, 2013-11-16 at 13:30 -0800, hep
>         wrote:
>         >         >         > I would like to take this opportunity to
>         point out
>         >         that this
>         >         >         entire
>         >         >         > discussion is a pretty good example of
>         why in 2013
>         >         we need a
>         >         >         firm,
>         >         >         > clear, anti-harassment policy for
>         noisebridge to
>         >         take the
>         >         >         first step
>         >         >         > for being a truly safe environment for
>         everyone.
>         >         >
>         >         >         JS: I believe such a policy will have
>         negligible
>         >         >         affect.
>         >         >
>         >         >         > Here in November 2013, a man is
>         seriously
>         >         proposing that
>         >         >         women*, many
>         >         >         > of whom: may be smaller than many males,
>         >         non-confrontational
>         >         >         for one
>         >         >         > reason or another, alone except for
>         their
>         >         attacker, and/or
>         >         >         may
>         >         >         > possibly have reasons for not wanting to
>         engage
>         >         physically
>         >         >         with a male
>         >         >         > who has just sexually assaulted them,
>         hit their
>         >         attacker and
>         >         >         then
>         >         >         > silence themselves from any community
>         support,
>         >         over an issue
>         >         >         that will
>         >         >         > often be called into question repeatedly
>         as to a)
>         >         whether it
>         >         >         happened
>         >         >         > b) whether it was "enough" to warrent a
>         response,
>         >         and c)
>         >         >         whether the
>         >         >         > victim merely "misinterpreted" what
>         happened to
>         >         their own
>         >         >         body.
>         >         >
>         >         >         JS: I proposed no such thing.
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         >         > Then that man asks a woman who is upset
>         by the
>         >         tepid
>         >         >         official response
>         >         >         > to sexual assault in the community if
>         she should
>         >         really be
>         >         >         so mad, and
>         >         >         > if she really has the "higher ground" to
>         stand on.
>         >         >
>         >         >         JS: I have previous experience with that
>         person
>         >         >         and stand by my suggestion that she may be
>         living
>         >         >         too much in anger.
>         >         >         >
>         >         >         > Then that man goes on to repeatedly back
>         these
>         >         points.
>         >         >
>         >         >         JS: incorrect, as your description of the
>         points
>         >         >         is largely erroneous.
>         >         >         >
>         >         >         > Then that man *claims that the community
>         should
>         >         support his
>         >         >         viewpoints
>         >         >         > because he is somehow a less privileged
>         community
>         >         member*
>         >         >         and deserves
>         >         >         > equal "community support" as a sexual
>         assault
>         >         victim.
>         >         >
>         >         >         JS: I made no such claims. I suggest that
>         >         individuals
>         >         >         consider that taking action might be
>         empowering for
>         >         >         them. I do not suggest that anyone
>         necessarily take
>         >         >         action alone, and as someone rightly
>         suggested,
>         >         taking
>         >         >         action, especially alone, might prove
>         dangerous and
>         >         >         foolish.
>         >         >         >
>         >         >         > Just sayin'.
>         >         >         JS: and liking it.
>         >         >         >
>         >         >         > -hep
>         >         >
>         >         >         > I say woman only because he framed that
>         as the
>         >         example.
>         >         >
>         >         >         JS: yes, and I now regret choosing such a
>         lurid
>         >         >         example. I now wish I'd used a
>         homeless-seeming
>         >         >         and non-hacker-seeming person as an
>         example. The
>         >         >         dynamics would have been more interesting
>         to
>         >         >         explore.
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         >
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>         >
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>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >
>         >
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