[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Naomi Most pnaomi at gmail.com
Thu Apr 3 03:37:37 UTC 2014

Maybe we can form some relationship with a nearby shelter or hostel.

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to start off with I <3 you all.  Now lets get to the reality.  It
> could or could not be against the lease and that is mildly irrelevant.  Here
> is why.   We are at our landlords digression if he chooses to even allow us
> to renew the lease.  If we do a lot of things that make his life annoying
> (the tony incident, the graffiti and whatever else), he might just say,
> NOPE, not worth it.   So while it may be extremely excellent to allow people
> to live/sleep/whatever they want to do at noisebridge, it isn't necessarily
> excellent for noisebridge itself.  Whoever thinks it is OK to do any types
> of behavior that could further convince our landlord that it is not in their
> best interest to renew our lease, please help us find alternate arrangements
> in case he chooses to not allow us to renew our lease.  Please also be aware
> if he chooses that, it might be harder for us to get another lease, not even
> taking cost into consideration.   The landlord has the right to do business
> with whoever he chooses.
>  With every action within noisebridge, we should be thinking about "how do
> we ensure that the landlord will not be pissed off and choose to not renew
> our lease".  I could also be talking out my ass but if we err on the side of
> forgiveness, it could be a problem.  We also have to consider our neighbors
> in the building and the surrounding ones.   Additionally, I humbly suggest
> we should be leaving the building in a state better than we found it.
> And finally if you are still OK with things that could make the landlord
> feel this way, we may need to have some more fundraisers to ensure that in
> the case the landlord does not choose to renew our lease, that we can afford
> to get another space.  That might mean taking on more members and doing
> other things, which could mean more rules and other things to attract more
> members.  I don't want to get into that line of thought, ever.  I want
> noisebridge to be as open as possible and being excellent to noisebridge
> (the orginization), the landlord and the city of San Francisco
> Thanks for hopefully reading!
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive of
>> any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
>> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
>> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
>> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually give
>> you an invitation.
>> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not there.
>> The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not there.
>> There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen thinks it's
>> good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
>> Will.
>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble enough
>>> and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease, people
>>> will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent. Blah
>>> blah. "
>>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
>>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if you want
>>> a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good luck with
>>> that.
>>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who had
>>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
>>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
>>> On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi to all,
>>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well looks
>>>> like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not directly
>>>> connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you are just
>>>> sorting out this issue.
>>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back of
>>>> the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I like
>>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive direction.
>>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of kombucha
>>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges having
>>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did catering for 5
>>>> min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc. promoting our
>>>> activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
>>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject was a
>>>> good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community, caused a
>>>> lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was because he
>>>> did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially not with
>>>> mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides. This was
>>>> really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my position in
>>>> the community with such a fopa especially when I had another options, which
>>>> I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted quite quietly. To
>>>> be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a big issue, because
>>>> I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in a similar manner
>>>> for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a reasonable way.
>>>> Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was found very
>>>> quickly and I could continue with my activities without any issues, so
>>>> concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the Noisebridge
>>>> community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye on the
>>>> activities in the space from around the world through the discuss and
>>>> talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by Al was
>>>> actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my opinion.
>>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think that
>>>> having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in community
>>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward to help
>>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs. If people
>>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they become too
>>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking the
>>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate accommodation and
>>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
>>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick personal
>>>> explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it intensified
>>>> especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out that I have to
>>>> sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered the USA the
>>>> last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when I left the
>>>> time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that I'm in the
>>>> states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa for 6
>>>> months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I would have to
>>>> train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a master brewer
>>>> and that would be an issue, because at least month or so should be needed.
>>>> So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I had around one week
>>>> or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly leaving the place
>>>> immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours working days and me
>>>> staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the months before over the
>>>> night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3 am brewing class and
>>>> getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew. However majority of
>>>> the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was happily sleeping somewhere
>>>> close to the beach, in the park, out of the town, with friends couch
>>>> surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at Noisebridge over the night was
>>>> kind of must and I tried o avoid it both because of potential troubles and
>>>> not doing me well. Believe it or not I do not like to overstep if I know
>>>> that the community doesn't approve of that in general, but well in this case
>>>> I did and I appologised. However as I said especially at the period when I
>>>> had to sort out my issues with the immigration I was staying around more and
>>>> that was not good for anyone.
>>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good time
>>>> and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open, based on
>>>> consensus with active community showing the direction. It was possible
>>>> before, it can be done again.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>>>> On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the ritual was
>>>> getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before i started
>>>> doing event-related stuff.
>>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the space
>>>> and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i didn't
>>>> really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i noticed
>>>> that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people replaced him,
>>>> and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the space declined.
>>>> him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the space, because
>>>> he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was using and made up
>>>> his use of resources by providing the intangible service of near-constant
>>>> management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with praveen that his
>>>> insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people who are currently
>>>> overseas and continue to post to the list.
>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
>>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers, don't
>>>> be shocked at their behavior.
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
>>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge Discuss"
>>>> <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
>>>> Seriously.
>>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
>>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
>>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
>>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop people
>>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like to ferment
>>>> things" workspace.
>>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So I
>>>> will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read your
>>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions like YOURS
>>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly luxurious
>>>> kitchen. Great job.
>>>> - Ceren
>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
>>>> <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
>>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits south
>>>> stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper use of
>>>> facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
>>>> Jeffrey
>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi to all,
>>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
>>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last few
>>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge was a first
>>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces going
>>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being one of
>>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now well ...
>>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most of the
>>>> meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you will
>>>> have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if you have
>>>> one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
>>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment of
>>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for everything).
>>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
>>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less necessity, at
>>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without fridge is
>>>> doable but quite an issue.
>>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having some
>>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and safe. Do
>>>> not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is too low or
>>>> too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
>>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
>>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If you do
>>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well sink is
>>>> sink.
>>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play around you
>>>> need your ingredients and they need to stored properly. Stainless steel or
>>>> glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good cheap alternative.
>>>> Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand which was a case in
>>>> the building many times so this one has to be kept in mind.
>>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
>>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm involved
>>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking, brewing,
>>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and let them to
>>>> organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out of hand.
>>>> Better environment you have from the point of view of
>>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a nice and
>>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as most of
>>>> the things in community the social interactions are really important and
>>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people really
>>>> well.
>>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
>>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide to
>>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch a core of
>>>> the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again, it will
>>>> just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already standing and
>>>> ready to be used.
>>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social issues
>>>> and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people who are
>>>> socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for you now is
>>>> how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive. 091 labs
>>>> in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while and it is
>>>> generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related project like the
>>>> experimental incubator build up and you can start to move the things forward
>>>> in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer
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Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com

skype: nthmost


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