[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Thu Apr 3 03:41:58 UTC 2014


Now there is a positive idea.  Believe it or not, this is an excellent
idea.  I also think we should perhaps take note of people in the community
who seem to be having issues and perhaps see if there is anything we can do
to help.  I am willing to work with one of the shelters or hostel if we
would like to meetup and divide out the work.  I think it is too much for
one person but I am down.


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe we can form some relationship with a nearby shelter or hostel.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I want to start off with I <3 you all.  Now lets get to the reality.  It
> > could or could not be against the lease and that is mildly irrelevant.
>  Here
> > is why.   We are at our landlords digression if he chooses to even allow
> us
> > to renew the lease.  If we do a lot of things that make his life annoying
> > (the tony incident, the graffiti and whatever else), he might just say,
> > NOPE, not worth it.   So while it may be extremely excellent to allow
> people
> > to live/sleep/whatever they want to do at noisebridge, it isn't
> necessarily
> > excellent for noisebridge itself.  Whoever thinks it is OK to do any
> types
> > of behavior that could further convince our landlord that it is not in
> their
> > best interest to renew our lease, please help us find alternate
> arrangements
> > in case he chooses to not allow us to renew our lease.  Please also be
> aware
> > if he chooses that, it might be harder for us to get another lease, not
> even
> > taking cost into consideration.   The landlord has the right to do
> business
> > with whoever he chooses.
> >
> >  With every action within noisebridge, we should be thinking about "how
> do
> > we ensure that the landlord will not be pissed off and choose to not
> renew
> > our lease".  I could also be talking out my ass but if we err on the
> side of
> > forgiveness, it could be a problem.  We also have to consider our
> neighbors
> > in the building and the surrounding ones.   Additionally, I humbly
> suggest
> > we should be leaving the building in a state better than we found it.
> >
> > And finally if you are still OK with things that could make the landlord
> > feel this way, we may need to have some more fundraisers to ensure that
> in
> > the case the landlord does not choose to renew our lease, that we can
> afford
> > to get another space.  That might mean taking on more members and doing
> > other things, which could mean more rules and other things to attract
> more
> > members.  I don't want to get into that line of thought, ever.  I want
> > noisebridge to be as open as possible and being excellent to noisebridge
> > (the orginization), the landlord and the city of San Francisco
> >
> > Thanks for hopefully reading!
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive of
> >> any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
> >>
> >> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
> >> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
> >> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually give
> >> you an invitation.
> >>
> >> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not
> there.
> >> The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not there.
> >> There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen thinks
> it's
> >> good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
> >>
> >> Will.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble enough
> >>> and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease,
> people
> >>> will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent.
> Blah
> >>> blah. "
> >>>
> >>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
> >>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if
> you want
> >>> a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
> luck with
> >>> that.
> >>>
> >>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who had
> >>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
> >>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi to all,
> >>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well
> looks
> >>>> like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not
> directly
> >>>> connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you are
> just
> >>>> sorting out this issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back of
> >>>> the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I like
> >>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive
> direction.
> >>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of kombucha
> >>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges
> having
> >>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did
> catering for 5
> >>>> min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc.
> promoting our
> >>>> activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
> >>>>
> >>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject was
> a
> >>>> good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community,
> caused a
> >>>> lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was
> because he
> >>>> did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially not with
> >>>> mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides.
> This was
> >>>> really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my
> position in
> >>>> the community with such a fopa especially when I had another options,
> which
> >>>> I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted quite
> quietly. To
> >>>> be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a big issue,
> because
> >>>> I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in a similar
> manner
> >>>> for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a reasonable
> way.
> >>>> Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was found very
> >>>> quickly and I could continue with my activities without any issues, so
> >>>> concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the Noisebridge
> >>>> community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye on the
> >>>> activities in the space from around the world through the discuss and
> >>>> talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by
> Al was
> >>>> actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my opinion.
> >>>>
> >>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think that
> >>>> having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in community
> >>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward to
> help
> >>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs. If
> people
> >>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they become
> too
> >>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking the
> >>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate
> accommodation and
> >>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
> >>>>
> >>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick personal
> >>>> explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it
> intensified
> >>>> especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out that I
> have to
> >>>> sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered the USA
> the
> >>>> last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when I
> left the
> >>>> time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that I'm in
> the
> >>>> states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa for 6
> >>>> months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I would
> have to
> >>>> train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a master
> brewer
> >>>> and that would be an issue, because at least month or so should be
> needed.
> >>>> So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I had around
> one week
> >>>> or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly leaving the
> place
> >>>> immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours working days and
> me
> >>>> staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the months before
> over the
> >>>> night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3 am brewing class
> and
> >>>> getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew. However
> majority of
> >>>> the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was happily sleeping
> somewhere
> >>>> close to the beach, in the park, out of the town, with friends couch
> >>>> surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at Noisebridge over the night
> was
> >>>> kind of must and I tried o avoid it both because of potential
> troubles and
> >>>> not doing me well. Believe it or not I do not like to overstep if I
> know
> >>>> that the community doesn't approve of that in general, but well in
> this case
> >>>> I did and I appologised. However as I said especially at the period
> when I
> >>>> had to sort out my issues with the immigration I was staying around
> more and
> >>>> that was not good for anyone.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good time
> >>>> and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open, based
> on
> >>>> consensus with active community showing the direction. It was possible
> >>>> before, it can be done again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>
> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
> Gandhi
> >>>> On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the ritual
> was
> >>>> getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before i
> started
> >>>> doing event-related stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the space
> >>>> and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i
> didn't
> >>>> really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i
> noticed
> >>>> that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people
> replaced him,
> >>>> and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the space
> declined.
> >>>> him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the space,
> because
> >>>> he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was using and
> made up
> >>>> his use of resources by providing the intangible service of
> near-constant
> >>>> management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with praveen that
> his
> >>>> insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people who are
> currently
> >>>> overseas and continue to post to the list.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers,
> don't
> >>>> be shocked at their behavior.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
> >>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
> >>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
> >>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge Discuss"
> >>>> <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> >>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Seriously.
> >>>>
> >>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
> >>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
> >>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
> >>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop
> people
> >>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like to
> ferment
> >>>> things" workspace.
> >>>>
> >>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So I
> >>>> will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read your
> >>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions like
> YOURS
> >>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly luxurious
> >>>> kitchen. Great job.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Ceren
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
> >>>> <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
> >>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits south
> >>>> stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper use
> of
> >>>> facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jeffrey
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <
> algoldor at yahoo.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi to all,
> >>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
> >>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last
> few
> >>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge was a
> first
> >>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces going
> >>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being
> one of
> >>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now well
> ...
> >>>>
> >>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most of
> the
> >>>> meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you
> will
> >>>> have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if you
> have
> >>>> one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
> >>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment of
> >>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for
> everything).
> >>>>
> >>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
> >>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less necessity,
> at
> >>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without
> fridge is
> >>>> doable but quite an issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having some
> >>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and
> safe. Do
> >>>> not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is too
> low or
> >>>> too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
> >>>>
> >>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
> >>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If
> you do
> >>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well sink
> is
> >>>> sink.
> >>>>
> >>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play around
> you
> >>>> need your ingredients and they need to stored properly. Stainless
> steel or
> >>>> glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good cheap alternative.
> >>>> Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand which was a
> case in
> >>>> the building many times so this one has to be kept in mind.
> >>>>
> >>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
> >>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm
> involved
> >>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking,
> brewing,
> >>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and let
> them to
> >>>> organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out of
> hand.
> >>>> Better environment you have from the point of view of
> >>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a
> nice and
> >>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as
> most of
> >>>> the things in community the social interactions are really important
> and
> >>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people
> really
> >>>> well.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
> >>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide to
> >>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch a
> core of
> >>>> the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again, it
> will
> >>>> just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already standing
> and
> >>>> ready to be used.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
> >>>>
> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
> >>>>
> >>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social
> issues
> >>>> and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people who
> are
> >>>> socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for you
> now is
> >>>> how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive.
> 091 labs
> >>>> in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while and
> it is
> >>>> generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related project
> like the
> >>>> experimental incubator build up and you can start to move the things
> forward
> >>>> in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
> >>>>
> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
> Gandhi
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ronald Cotoni
> > Systems Engineer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>



-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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