[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Naomi Most pnaomi at gmail.com
Thu Apr 3 03:50:00 UTC 2014


Ron, want to be in the Community Working Group?

So far it looks like it's me, Praveen, and Adrian.

--Naomi


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now there is a positive idea.  Believe it or not, this is an excellent idea.
> I also think we should perhaps take note of people in the community who seem
> to be having issues and perhaps see if there is anything we can do to help.
> I am willing to work with one of the shelters or hostel if we would like to
> meetup and divide out the work.  I think it is too much for one person but I
> am down.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe we can form some relationship with a nearby shelter or hostel.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I want to start off with I <3 you all.  Now lets get to the reality.  It
>> > could or could not be against the lease and that is mildly irrelevant.
>> > Here
>> > is why.   We are at our landlords digression if he chooses to even allow
>> > us
>> > to renew the lease.  If we do a lot of things that make his life
>> > annoying
>> > (the tony incident, the graffiti and whatever else), he might just say,
>> > NOPE, not worth it.   So while it may be extremely excellent to allow
>> > people
>> > to live/sleep/whatever they want to do at noisebridge, it isn't
>> > necessarily
>> > excellent for noisebridge itself.  Whoever thinks it is OK to do any
>> > types
>> > of behavior that could further convince our landlord that it is not in
>> > their
>> > best interest to renew our lease, please help us find alternate
>> > arrangements
>> > in case he chooses to not allow us to renew our lease.  Please also be
>> > aware
>> > if he chooses that, it might be harder for us to get another lease, not
>> > even
>> > taking cost into consideration.   The landlord has the right to do
>> > business
>> > with whoever he chooses.
>> >
>> >  With every action within noisebridge, we should be thinking about "how
>> > do
>> > we ensure that the landlord will not be pissed off and choose to not
>> > renew
>> > our lease".  I could also be talking out my ass but if we err on the
>> > side of
>> > forgiveness, it could be a problem.  We also have to consider our
>> > neighbors
>> > in the building and the surrounding ones.   Additionally, I humbly
>> > suggest
>> > we should be leaving the building in a state better than we found it.
>> >
>> > And finally if you are still OK with things that could make the landlord
>> > feel this way, we may need to have some more fundraisers to ensure that
>> > in
>> > the case the landlord does not choose to renew our lease, that we can
>> > afford
>> > to get another space.  That might mean taking on more members and doing
>> > other things, which could mean more rules and other things to attract
>> > more
>> > members.  I don't want to get into that line of thought, ever.  I want
>> > noisebridge to be as open as possible and being excellent to noisebridge
>> > (the orginization), the landlord and the city of San Francisco
>> >
>> > Thanks for hopefully reading!
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive of
>> >> any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
>> >>
>> >> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
>> >> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
>> >> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually
>> >> give
>> >> you an invitation.
>> >>
>> >> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not
>> >> there.
>> >> The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not there.
>> >> There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen thinks
>> >> it's
>> >> good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
>> >>
>> >> Will.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble
>> >>> enough
>> >>> and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease,
>> >>> people
>> >>> will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent.
>> >>> Blah
>> >>> blah. "
>> >>>
>> >>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
>> >>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if
>> >>> you want
>> >>> a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
>> >>> luck with
>> >>> that.
>> >>>
>> >>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who had
>> >>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
>> >>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi to all,
>> >>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well
>> >>>> looks
>> >>>> like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not
>> >>>> directly
>> >>>> connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you are
>> >>>> just
>> >>>> sorting out this issue.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back of
>> >>>> the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I
>> >>>> like
>> >>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive
>> >>>> direction.
>> >>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of kombucha
>> >>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges
>> >>>> having
>> >>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did
>> >>>> catering for 5
>> >>>> min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc.
>> >>>> promoting our
>> >>>> activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject was
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community,
>> >>>> caused a
>> >>>> lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was
>> >>>> because he
>> >>>> did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially not
>> >>>> with
>> >>>> mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides.
>> >>>> This was
>> >>>> really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my
>> >>>> position in
>> >>>> the community with such a fopa especially when I had another options,
>> >>>> which
>> >>>> I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted quite
>> >>>> quietly. To
>> >>>> be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a big issue,
>> >>>> because
>> >>>> I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in a similar
>> >>>> manner
>> >>>> for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a reasonable
>> >>>> way.
>> >>>> Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was found very
>> >>>> quickly and I could continue with my activities without any issues,
>> >>>> so
>> >>>> concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the
>> >>>> Noisebridge
>> >>>> community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye on
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> activities in the space from around the world through the discuss and
>> >>>> talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by
>> >>>> Al was
>> >>>> actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my opinion.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think that
>> >>>> having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in
>> >>>> community
>> >>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward to
>> >>>> help
>> >>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs. If
>> >>>> people
>> >>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they become
>> >>>> too
>> >>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking the
>> >>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate
>> >>>> accommodation and
>> >>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick
>> >>>> personal
>> >>>> explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it
>> >>>> intensified
>> >>>> especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out that I
>> >>>> have to
>> >>>> sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered the USA
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when I
>> >>>> left the
>> >>>> time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that I'm in
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa for
>> >>>> 6
>> >>>> months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I would
>> >>>> have to
>> >>>> train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a master
>> >>>> brewer
>> >>>> and that would be an issue, because at least month or so should be
>> >>>> needed.
>> >>>> So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I had around
>> >>>> one week
>> >>>> or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly leaving the
>> >>>> place
>> >>>> immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours working days and
>> >>>> me
>> >>>> staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the months before
>> >>>> over the
>> >>>> night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3 am brewing class
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew. However
>> >>>> majority of
>> >>>> the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was happily sleeping
>> >>>> somewhere
>> >>>> close to the beach, in the park, out of the town, with friends couch
>> >>>> surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at Noisebridge over the night
>> >>>> was
>> >>>> kind of must and I tried o avoid it both because of potential
>> >>>> troubles and
>> >>>> not doing me well. Believe it or not I do not like to overstep if I
>> >>>> know
>> >>>> that the community doesn't approve of that in general, but well in
>> >>>> this case
>> >>>> I did and I appologised. However as I said especially at the period
>> >>>> when I
>> >>>> had to sort out my issues with the immigration I was staying around
>> >>>> more and
>> >>>> that was not good for anyone.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good
>> >>>> time
>> >>>> and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open, based
>> >>>> on
>> >>>> consensus with active community showing the direction. It was
>> >>>> possible
>> >>>> before, it can be done again.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sincerely,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>> >>>> Gandhi
>> >>>> On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>> when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the ritual
>> >>>> was
>> >>>> getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before i
>> >>>> started
>> >>>> doing event-related stuff.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the space
>> >>>> and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i
>> >>>> didn't
>> >>>> really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i
>> >>>> noticed
>> >>>> that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people
>> >>>> replaced him,
>> >>>> and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the space
>> >>>> declined.
>> >>>> him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the space,
>> >>>> because
>> >>>> he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was using and
>> >>>> made up
>> >>>> his use of resources by providing the intangible service of
>> >>>> near-constant
>> >>>> management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with praveen that
>> >>>> his
>> >>>> insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people who are
>> >>>> currently
>> >>>> overseas and continue to post to the list.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers,
>> >>>> don't
>> >>>> be shocked at their behavior.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
>> >>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
>> >>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>> >>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge Discuss"
>> >>>> <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> >>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Seriously.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
>> >>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
>> >>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
>> >>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop
>> >>>> people
>> >>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like to
>> >>>> ferment
>> >>>> things" workspace.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So I
>> >>>> will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read your
>> >>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions like
>> >>>> YOURS
>> >>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly
>> >>>> luxurious
>> >>>> kitchen. Great job.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Ceren
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
>> >>>> <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
>> >>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits south
>> >>>> stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper use
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jeffrey
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck
>> >>>> <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi to all,
>> >>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
>> >>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last
>> >>>> few
>> >>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge was a
>> >>>> first
>> >>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces going
>> >>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being
>> >>>> one of
>> >>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now well
>> >>>> ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most of
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you
>> >>>> will
>> >>>> have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if you
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
>> >>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for
>> >>>> everything).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
>> >>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less necessity,
>> >>>> at
>> >>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without
>> >>>> fridge is
>> >>>> doable but quite an issue.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having some
>> >>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and
>> >>>> safe. Do
>> >>>> not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is too
>> >>>> low or
>> >>>> too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
>> >>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If
>> >>>> you do
>> >>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well sink
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> sink.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play around
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> need your ingredients and they need to stored properly. Stainless
>> >>>> steel or
>> >>>> glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good cheap
>> >>>> alternative.
>> >>>> Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand which was a
>> >>>> case in
>> >>>> the building many times so this one has to be kept in mind.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
>> >>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm
>> >>>> involved
>> >>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking,
>> >>>> brewing,
>> >>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and let
>> >>>> them to
>> >>>> organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out of
>> >>>> hand.
>> >>>> Better environment you have from the point of view of
>> >>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a
>> >>>> nice and
>> >>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as
>> >>>> most of
>> >>>> the things in community the social interactions are really important
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people
>> >>>> really
>> >>>> well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
>> >>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide to
>> >>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch a
>> >>>> core of
>> >>>> the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again, it
>> >>>> will
>> >>>> just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already standing
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> ready to be used.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>> >>>>
>> >>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social
>> >>>> issues
>> >>>> and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people who
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for you
>> >>>> now is
>> >>>> how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive.
>> >>>> 091 labs
>> >>>> in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while and
>> >>>> it is
>> >>>> generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related project
>> >>>> like the
>> >>>> experimental incubator build up and you can start to move the things
>> >>>> forward
>> >>>> in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>> >>>> Gandhi
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ronald Cotoni
>> > Systems Engineer
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer



-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost


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