[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Thu Apr 3 03:52:47 UTC 2014


Do you think I am level headed enough for it and like you know neutral?
If so then why not.
On Apr 2, 2014 8:50 PM, "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ron, want to be in the Community Working Group?
>
> So far it looks like it's me, Praveen, and Adrian.
>
> --Naomi
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Now there is a positive idea.  Believe it or not, this is an excellent
> idea.
> > I also think we should perhaps take note of people in the community who
> seem
> > to be having issues and perhaps see if there is anything we can do to
> help.
> > I am willing to work with one of the shelters or hostel if we would like
> to
> > meetup and divide out the work.  I think it is too much for one person
> but I
> > am down.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe we can form some relationship with a nearby shelter or hostel.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > I want to start off with I <3 you all.  Now lets get to the reality.
>  It
> >> > could or could not be against the lease and that is mildly irrelevant.
> >> > Here
> >> > is why.   We are at our landlords digression if he chooses to even
> allow
> >> > us
> >> > to renew the lease.  If we do a lot of things that make his life
> >> > annoying
> >> > (the tony incident, the graffiti and whatever else), he might just
> say,
> >> > NOPE, not worth it.   So while it may be extremely excellent to allow
> >> > people
> >> > to live/sleep/whatever they want to do at noisebridge, it isn't
> >> > necessarily
> >> > excellent for noisebridge itself.  Whoever thinks it is OK to do any
> >> > types
> >> > of behavior that could further convince our landlord that it is not in
> >> > their
> >> > best interest to renew our lease, please help us find alternate
> >> > arrangements
> >> > in case he chooses to not allow us to renew our lease.  Please also be
> >> > aware
> >> > if he chooses that, it might be harder for us to get another lease,
> not
> >> > even
> >> > taking cost into consideration.   The landlord has the right to do
> >> > business
> >> > with whoever he chooses.
> >> >
> >> >  With every action within noisebridge, we should be thinking about
> "how
> >> > do
> >> > we ensure that the landlord will not be pissed off and choose to not
> >> > renew
> >> > our lease".  I could also be talking out my ass but if we err on the
> >> > side of
> >> > forgiveness, it could be a problem.  We also have to consider our
> >> > neighbors
> >> > in the building and the surrounding ones.   Additionally, I humbly
> >> > suggest
> >> > we should be leaving the building in a state better than we found it.
> >> >
> >> > And finally if you are still OK with things that could make the
> landlord
> >> > feel this way, we may need to have some more fundraisers to ensure
> that
> >> > in
> >> > the case the landlord does not choose to renew our lease, that we can
> >> > afford
> >> > to get another space.  That might mean taking on more members and
> doing
> >> > other things, which could mean more rules and other things to attract
> >> > more
> >> > members.  I don't want to get into that line of thought, ever.  I want
> >> > noisebridge to be as open as possible and being excellent to
> noisebridge
> >> > (the orginization), the landlord and the city of San Francisco
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for hopefully reading!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive
> of
> >> >> any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
> >> >>
> >> >> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
> >> >> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
> >> >> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually
> >> >> give
> >> >> you an invitation.
> >> >>
> >> >> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not
> >> >> there.
> >> >> The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not there.
> >> >> There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen
> thinks
> >> >> it's
> >> >> good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
> >> >>
> >> >> Will.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble
> >> >>> enough
> >> >>> and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease,
> >> >>> people
> >> >>> will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent.
> >> >>> Blah
> >> >>> blah. "
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
> >> >>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if
> >> >>> you want
> >> >>> a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
> >> >>> luck with
> >> >>> that.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who had
> >> >>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
> >> >>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hi to all,
> >> >>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well
> >> >>>> looks
> >> >>>> like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not
> >> >>>> directly
> >> >>>> connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you
> are
> >> >>>> just
> >> >>>> sorting out this issue.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back
> of
> >> >>>> the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I
> >> >>>> like
> >> >>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive
> >> >>>> direction.
> >> >>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of
> kombucha
> >> >>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges
> >> >>>> having
> >> >>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did
> >> >>>> catering for 5
> >> >>>> min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc.
> >> >>>> promoting our
> >> >>>> activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject
> was
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>> good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community,
> >> >>>> caused a
> >> >>>> lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was
> >> >>>> because he
> >> >>>> did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially not
> >> >>>> with
> >> >>>> mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides.
> >> >>>> This was
> >> >>>> really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my
> >> >>>> position in
> >> >>>> the community with such a fopa especially when I had another
> options,
> >> >>>> which
> >> >>>> I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted quite
> >> >>>> quietly. To
> >> >>>> be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a big
> issue,
> >> >>>> because
> >> >>>> I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in a similar
> >> >>>> manner
> >> >>>> for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a
> reasonable
> >> >>>> way.
> >> >>>> Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was found
> very
> >> >>>> quickly and I could continue with my activities without any issues,
> >> >>>> so
> >> >>>> concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the
> >> >>>> Noisebridge
> >> >>>> community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye on
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> activities in the space from around the world through the discuss
> and
> >> >>>> talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by
> >> >>>> Al was
> >> >>>> actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my
> opinion.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think
> that
> >> >>>> having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in
> >> >>>> community
> >> >>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward
> to
> >> >>>> help
> >> >>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs.
> If
> >> >>>> people
> >> >>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they
> become
> >> >>>> too
> >> >>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking
> the
> >> >>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate
> >> >>>> accommodation and
> >> >>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick
> >> >>>> personal
> >> >>>> explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it
> >> >>>> intensified
> >> >>>> especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out that I
> >> >>>> have to
> >> >>>> sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered the
> USA
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when I
> >> >>>> left the
> >> >>>> time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that I'm
> in
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa
> for
> >> >>>> 6
> >> >>>> months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I
> would
> >> >>>> have to
> >> >>>> train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a
> master
> >> >>>> brewer
> >> >>>> and that would be an issue, because at least month or so should be
> >> >>>> needed.
> >> >>>> So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I had around
> >> >>>> one week
> >> >>>> or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly leaving the
> >> >>>> place
> >> >>>> immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours working days
> and
> >> >>>> me
> >> >>>> staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the months before
> >> >>>> over the
> >> >>>> night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3 am brewing class
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>> getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew. However
> >> >>>> majority of
> >> >>>> the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was happily sleeping
> >> >>>> somewhere
> >> >>>> close to the beach, in the park, out of the town, with friends
> couch
> >> >>>> surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at Noisebridge over the
> night
> >> >>>> was
> >> >>>> kind of must and I tried o avoid it both because of potential
> >> >>>> troubles and
> >> >>>> not doing me well. Believe it or not I do not like to overstep if I
> >> >>>> know
> >> >>>> that the community doesn't approve of that in general, but well in
> >> >>>> this case
> >> >>>> I did and I appologised. However as I said especially at the period
> >> >>>> when I
> >> >>>> had to sort out my issues with the immigration I was staying around
> >> >>>> more and
> >> >>>> that was not good for anyone.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good
> >> >>>> time
> >> >>>> and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open,
> based
> >> >>>> on
> >> >>>> consensus with active community showing the direction. It was
> >> >>>> possible
> >> >>>> before, it can be done again.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sincerely,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
> >> >>>> Gandhi
> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com
> >
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>> when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the ritual
> >> >>>> was
> >> >>>> getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before i
> >> >>>> started
> >> >>>> doing event-related stuff.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the
> space
> >> >>>> and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i
> >> >>>> didn't
> >> >>>> really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i
> >> >>>> noticed
> >> >>>> that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people
> >> >>>> replaced him,
> >> >>>> and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the space
> >> >>>> declined.
> >> >>>> him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the space,
> >> >>>> because
> >> >>>> he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was using and
> >> >>>> made up
> >> >>>> his use of resources by providing the intangible service of
> >> >>>> near-constant
> >> >>>> management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with praveen
> that
> >> >>>> his
> >> >>>> insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people who are
> >> >>>> currently
> >> >>>> overseas and continue to post to the list.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com
> >
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers,
> >> >>>> don't
> >> >>>> be shocked at their behavior.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
> >> >>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
> >> >>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
> >> >>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge
> Discuss"
> >> >>>> <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> >> >>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Seriously.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
> >> >>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
> >> >>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
> >> >>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop
> >> >>>> people
> >> >>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like
> to
> >> >>>> ferment
> >> >>>> things" workspace.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So
> I
> >> >>>> will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read
> your
> >> >>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions
> like
> >> >>>> YOURS
> >> >>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly
> >> >>>> luxurious
> >> >>>> kitchen. Great job.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> - Ceren
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
> >> >>>> <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
> >> >>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits
> south
> >> >>>> stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper
> use
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Jeffrey
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck
> >> >>>> <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hi to all,
> >> >>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
> >> >>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last
> >> >>>> few
> >> >>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge
> was a
> >> >>>> first
> >> >>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces
> going
> >> >>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being
> >> >>>> one of
> >> >>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now
> well
> >> >>>> ...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most
> of
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you
> >> >>>> will
> >> >>>> have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if
> you
> >> >>>> have
> >> >>>> one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
> >> >>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for
> >> >>>> everything).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
> >> >>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less
> necessity,
> >> >>>> at
> >> >>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without
> >> >>>> fridge is
> >> >>>> doable but quite an issue.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having some
> >> >>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and
> >> >>>> safe. Do
> >> >>>> not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is
> too
> >> >>>> low or
> >> >>>> too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
> >> >>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If
> >> >>>> you do
> >> >>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well
> sink
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> sink.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play
> around
> >> >>>> you
> >> >>>> need your ingredients and they need to stored properly. Stainless
> >> >>>> steel or
> >> >>>> glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good cheap
> >> >>>> alternative.
> >> >>>> Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand which was a
> >> >>>> case in
> >> >>>> the building many times so this one has to be kept in mind.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
> >> >>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm
> >> >>>> involved
> >> >>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking,
> >> >>>> brewing,
> >> >>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and
> let
> >> >>>> them to
> >> >>>> organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out
> of
> >> >>>> hand.
> >> >>>> Better environment you have from the point of view of
> >> >>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a
> >> >>>> nice and
> >> >>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as
> >> >>>> most of
> >> >>>> the things in community the social interactions are really
> important
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people
> >> >>>> really
> >> >>>> well.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
> >> >>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide
> to
> >> >>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch
> a
> >> >>>> core of
> >> >>>> the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again,
> it
> >> >>>> will
> >> >>>> just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already
> standing
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>> ready to be used.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social
> >> >>>> issues
> >> >>>> and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people
> who
> >> >>>> are
> >> >>>> socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for
> you
> >> >>>> now is
> >> >>>> how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive.
> >> >>>> 091 labs
> >> >>>> in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while
> and
> >> >>>> it is
> >> >>>> generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related project
> >> >>>> like the
> >> >>>> experimental incubator build up and you can start to move the
> things
> >> >>>> forward
> >> >>>> in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
> >> >>>> Gandhi
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Ronald Cotoni
> >> > Systems Engineer
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Naomi Theora Most
> >> naomi at nthmost.com
> >> +1-415-728-7490
> >>
> >> skype: nthmost
> >>
> >> http://twitter.com/nthmost
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ronald Cotoni
> > Systems Engineer
>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
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