[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Naomi Most pnaomi at gmail.com
Thu Apr 3 03:55:36 UTC 2014


You're pretty level-headed.

The CWG probably needs to do more things than just deal with
interpersonal troubles, anyway.  Helping people find affordable
transitional services would be extremely helpful.

--Naomi

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you think I am level headed enough for it and like you know neutral?
> If so then why not.
>
> On Apr 2, 2014 8:50 PM, "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ron, want to be in the Community Working Group?
>>
>> So far it looks like it's me, Praveen, and Adrian.
>>
>> --Naomi
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Now there is a positive idea.  Believe it or not, this is an excellent
>> > idea.
>> > I also think we should perhaps take note of people in the community who
>> > seem
>> > to be having issues and perhaps see if there is anything we can do to
>> > help.
>> > I am willing to work with one of the shelters or hostel if we would like
>> > to
>> > meetup and divide out the work.  I think it is too much for one person
>> > but I
>> > am down.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Maybe we can form some relationship with a nearby shelter or hostel.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I want to start off with I <3 you all.  Now lets get to the reality.
>> >> > It
>> >> > could or could not be against the lease and that is mildly
>> >> > irrelevant.
>> >> > Here
>> >> > is why.   We are at our landlords digression if he chooses to even
>> >> > allow
>> >> > us
>> >> > to renew the lease.  If we do a lot of things that make his life
>> >> > annoying
>> >> > (the tony incident, the graffiti and whatever else), he might just
>> >> > say,
>> >> > NOPE, not worth it.   So while it may be extremely excellent to allow
>> >> > people
>> >> > to live/sleep/whatever they want to do at noisebridge, it isn't
>> >> > necessarily
>> >> > excellent for noisebridge itself.  Whoever thinks it is OK to do any
>> >> > types
>> >> > of behavior that could further convince our landlord that it is not
>> >> > in
>> >> > their
>> >> > best interest to renew our lease, please help us find alternate
>> >> > arrangements
>> >> > in case he chooses to not allow us to renew our lease.  Please also
>> >> > be
>> >> > aware
>> >> > if he chooses that, it might be harder for us to get another lease,
>> >> > not
>> >> > even
>> >> > taking cost into consideration.   The landlord has the right to do
>> >> > business
>> >> > with whoever he chooses.
>> >> >
>> >> >  With every action within noisebridge, we should be thinking about
>> >> > "how
>> >> > do
>> >> > we ensure that the landlord will not be pissed off and choose to not
>> >> > renew
>> >> > our lease".  I could also be talking out my ass but if we err on the
>> >> > side of
>> >> > forgiveness, it could be a problem.  We also have to consider our
>> >> > neighbors
>> >> > in the building and the surrounding ones.   Additionally, I humbly
>> >> > suggest
>> >> > we should be leaving the building in a state better than we found it.
>> >> >
>> >> > And finally if you are still OK with things that could make the
>> >> > landlord
>> >> > feel this way, we may need to have some more fundraisers to ensure
>> >> > that
>> >> > in
>> >> > the case the landlord does not choose to renew our lease, that we can
>> >> > afford
>> >> > to get another space.  That might mean taking on more members and
>> >> > doing
>> >> > other things, which could mean more rules and other things to attract
>> >> > more
>> >> > members.  I don't want to get into that line of thought, ever.  I
>> >> > want
>> >> > noisebridge to be as open as possible and being excellent to
>> >> > noisebridge
>> >> > (the orginization), the landlord and the city of San Francisco
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for hopefully reading!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
>> >> >> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
>> >> >> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually
>> >> >> give
>> >> >> you an invitation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not
>> >> >> there.
>> >> >> The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not there.
>> >> >> There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen
>> >> >> thinks
>> >> >> it's
>> >> >> good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Will.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble
>> >> >>> enough
>> >> >>> and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease,
>> >> >>> people
>> >> >>> will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in
>> >> >>> docent.
>> >> >>> Blah
>> >> >>> blah. "
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
>> >> >>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if
>> >> >>> you want
>> >> >>> a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
>> >> >>> luck with
>> >> >>> that.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who
>> >> >>> had
>> >> >>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
>> >> >>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Hi to all,
>> >> >>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well
>> >> >>>> looks
>> >> >>>> like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not
>> >> >>>> directly
>> >> >>>> connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you
>> >> >>>> are
>> >> >>>> just
>> >> >>>> sorting out this issue.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back
>> >> >>>> of
>> >> >>>> the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I
>> >> >>>> like
>> >> >>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive
>> >> >>>> direction.
>> >> >>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of
>> >> >>>> kombucha
>> >> >>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges
>> >> >>>> having
>> >> >>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did
>> >> >>>> catering for 5
>> >> >>>> min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc.
>> >> >>>> promoting our
>> >> >>>> activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject
>> >> >>>> was
>> >> >>>> a
>> >> >>>> good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community,
>> >> >>>> caused a
>> >> >>>> lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was
>> >> >>>> because he
>> >> >>>> did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially not
>> >> >>>> with
>> >> >>>> mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides.
>> >> >>>> This was
>> >> >>>> really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my
>> >> >>>> position in
>> >> >>>> the community with such a fopa especially when I had another
>> >> >>>> options,
>> >> >>>> which
>> >> >>>> I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted quite
>> >> >>>> quietly. To
>> >> >>>> be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a big
>> >> >>>> issue,
>> >> >>>> because
>> >> >>>> I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in a similar
>> >> >>>> manner
>> >> >>>> for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a
>> >> >>>> reasonable
>> >> >>>> way.
>> >> >>>> Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was found
>> >> >>>> very
>> >> >>>> quickly and I could continue with my activities without any
>> >> >>>> issues,
>> >> >>>> so
>> >> >>>> concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge
>> >> >>>> community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye on
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> activities in the space from around the world through the discuss
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target
>> >> >>>> by
>> >> >>>> Al was
>> >> >>>> actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my
>> >> >>>> opinion.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think
>> >> >>>> that
>> >> >>>> having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in
>> >> >>>> community
>> >> >>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward
>> >> >>>> to
>> >> >>>> help
>> >> >>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs.
>> >> >>>> If
>> >> >>>> people
>> >> >>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they
>> >> >>>> become
>> >> >>>> too
>> >> >>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate
>> >> >>>> accommodation and
>> >> >>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick
>> >> >>>> personal
>> >> >>>> explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it
>> >> >>>> intensified
>> >> >>>> especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out that
>> >> >>>> I
>> >> >>>> have to
>> >> >>>> sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered the
>> >> >>>> USA
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when I
>> >> >>>> left the
>> >> >>>> time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that I'm
>> >> >>>> in
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa
>> >> >>>> for
>> >> >>>> 6
>> >> >>>> months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I
>> >> >>>> would
>> >> >>>> have to
>> >> >>>> train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a
>> >> >>>> master
>> >> >>>> brewer
>> >> >>>> and that would be an issue, because at least month or so should be
>> >> >>>> needed.
>> >> >>>> So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I had around
>> >> >>>> one week
>> >> >>>> or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly leaving
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> place
>> >> >>>> immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours working days
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> me
>> >> >>>> staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the months before
>> >> >>>> over the
>> >> >>>> night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3 am brewing
>> >> >>>> class
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew. However
>> >> >>>> majority of
>> >> >>>> the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was happily sleeping
>> >> >>>> somewhere
>> >> >>>> close to the beach, in the park, out of the town, with friends
>> >> >>>> couch
>> >> >>>> surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at Noisebridge over the
>> >> >>>> night
>> >> >>>> was
>> >> >>>> kind of must and I tried o avoid it both because of potential
>> >> >>>> troubles and
>> >> >>>> not doing me well. Believe it or not I do not like to overstep if
>> >> >>>> I
>> >> >>>> know
>> >> >>>> that the community doesn't approve of that in general, but well in
>> >> >>>> this case
>> >> >>>> I did and I appologised. However as I said especially at the
>> >> >>>> period
>> >> >>>> when I
>> >> >>>> had to sort out my issues with the immigration I was staying
>> >> >>>> around
>> >> >>>> more and
>> >> >>>> that was not good for anyone.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good
>> >> >>>> time
>> >> >>>> and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open,
>> >> >>>> based
>> >> >>>> on
>> >> >>>> consensus with active community showing the direction. It was
>> >> >>>> possible
>> >> >>>> before, it can be done again.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Sincerely,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>> >> >>>> Gandhi
>> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne
>> >> >>>> <daravinne at gmail.com>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>> when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the
>> >> >>>> ritual
>> >> >>>> was
>> >> >>>> getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before i
>> >> >>>> started
>> >> >>>> doing event-related stuff.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the
>> >> >>>> space
>> >> >>>> and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i
>> >> >>>> didn't
>> >> >>>> really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since
>> >> >>>> i
>> >> >>>> noticed
>> >> >>>> that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people
>> >> >>>> replaced him,
>> >> >>>> and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the space
>> >> >>>> declined.
>> >> >>>> him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the space,
>> >> >>>> because
>> >> >>>> he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was using
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> made up
>> >> >>>> his use of resources by providing the intangible service of
>> >> >>>> near-constant
>> >> >>>> management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with praveen
>> >> >>>> that
>> >> >>>> his
>> >> >>>> insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people who are
>> >> >>>> currently
>> >> >>>> overseas and continue to post to the list.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio
>> >> >>>> <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers,
>> >> >>>> don't
>> >> >>>> be shocked at their behavior.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
>> >> >>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
>> >> >>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>> >> >>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge
>> >> >>>> Discuss"
>> >> >>>> <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> >> >>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Seriously.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
>> >> >>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
>> >> >>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
>> >> >>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop
>> >> >>>> people
>> >> >>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like
>> >> >>>> to
>> >> >>>> ferment
>> >> >>>> things" workspace.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So
>> >> >>>> I
>> >> >>>> will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read
>> >> >>>> your
>> >> >>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions
>> >> >>>> like
>> >> >>>> YOURS
>> >> >>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly
>> >> >>>> luxurious
>> >> >>>> kitchen. Great job.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> - Ceren
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
>> >> >>>> <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
>> >> >>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits
>> >> >>>> south
>> >> >>>> stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper
>> >> >>>> use
>> >> >>>> of
>> >> >>>> facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Jeffrey
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck
>> >> >>>> <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Hi to all,
>> >> >>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
>> >> >>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in
>> >> >>>> last
>> >> >>>> few
>> >> >>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge
>> >> >>>> was a
>> >> >>>> first
>> >> >>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces
>> >> >>>> going
>> >> >>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge
>> >> >>>> being
>> >> >>>> one of
>> >> >>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now
>> >> >>>> well
>> >> >>>> ...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most
>> >> >>>> of
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also
>> >> >>>> you
>> >> >>>> will
>> >> >>>> have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if
>> >> >>>> you
>> >> >>>> have
>> >> >>>> one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen,
>> >> >>>> biotech
>> >> >>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat
>> >> >>>> treatment
>> >> >>>> of
>> >> >>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for
>> >> >>>> everything).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
>> >> >>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less
>> >> >>>> necessity,
>> >> >>>> at
>> >> >>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without
>> >> >>>> fridge is
>> >> >>>> doable but quite an issue.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having
>> >> >>>> some
>> >> >>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> safe. Do
>> >> >>>> not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is
>> >> >>>> too
>> >> >>>> low or
>> >> >>>> too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
>> >> >>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If
>> >> >>>> you do
>> >> >>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well
>> >> >>>> sink
>> >> >>>> is
>> >> >>>> sink.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play
>> >> >>>> around
>> >> >>>> you
>> >> >>>> need your ingredients and they need to stored properly. Stainless
>> >> >>>> steel or
>> >> >>>> glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good cheap
>> >> >>>> alternative.
>> >> >>>> Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand which was
>> >> >>>> a
>> >> >>>> case in
>> >> >>>> the building many times so this one has to be kept in mind.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
>> >> >>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm
>> >> >>>> involved
>> >> >>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking,
>> >> >>>> brewing,
>> >> >>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and
>> >> >>>> let
>> >> >>>> them to
>> >> >>>> organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out
>> >> >>>> of
>> >> >>>> hand.
>> >> >>>> Better environment you have from the point of view of
>> >> >>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a
>> >> >>>> nice and
>> >> >>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as
>> >> >>>> most of
>> >> >>>> the things in community the social interactions are really
>> >> >>>> important
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people
>> >> >>>> really
>> >> >>>> well.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
>> >> >>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide
>> >> >>>> to
>> >> >>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch
>> >> >>>> a
>> >> >>>> core of
>> >> >>>> the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again,
>> >> >>>> it
>> >> >>>> will
>> >> >>>> just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already
>> >> >>>> standing
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> ready to be used.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social
>> >> >>>> issues
>> >> >>>> and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people
>> >> >>>> who
>> >> >>>> are
>> >> >>>> socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for
>> >> >>>> you
>> >> >>>> now is
>> >> >>>> how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being
>> >> >>>> productive.
>> >> >>>> 091 labs
>> >> >>>> in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> it is
>> >> >>>> generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related
>> >> >>>> project
>> >> >>>> like the
>> >> >>>> experimental incubator build up and you can start to move the
>> >> >>>> things
>> >> >>>> forward
>> >> >>>> in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>> >> >>>> Gandhi
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Ronald Cotoni
>> >> > Systems Engineer
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Naomi Theora Most
>> >> naomi at nthmost.com
>> >> +1-415-728-7490
>> >>
>> >> skype: nthmost
>> >>
>> >> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ronald Cotoni
>> > Systems Engineer
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost



-- 
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naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

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