[Noisebridge-discuss] reasoning about the kitchen

Naomi Most pnaomi at gmail.com
Tue Apr 15 16:37:34 UTC 2014


"Education saturation" is a good phrase to meditate on.  Maybe it's
even one we can quantify.

I'm getting on the plane soon, will see you all in person soon enough.  :)

Cheers,
Naomi


On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> You are right, I knew Matt and Jenny were involved in sudoroom.  Lets all
> get together and solve these problems.  I should change the tone of my email
> to be not so aggressive.
>
> What I was hoping for is education saturation.  That means at any given
> time, there will be an overwhelmingly aware people of how to keep a clean
> kitchen.  The reason I suggested daily is so that once we are done doing it
> daily for a while, we can pass the torch to the kitchen users and build a
> bit of teamwork.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Matt Senate co-founded sudo room and definitely is familiar with
>> Noisebridge.
>>
>> > we need to actually have a team of people that does pretty much nothing
>> > but clean and keep up the space.
>>
>> I hope you mean that that's what it would /take/ to keep
>> current-Noisebridge clean, and not what we're striving for.
>>
>> I hope that what we're striving for is a situation where better habits
>> and perhaps some better-prioritized resources (e.g. decision about
>> whether to keep the stove) tamp down the need for constant cleaning.
>>
>> >  It would appear that the people who want the kitchen need to
>> > drastically step up their game.
>> > There should NEVER be dirty dishes ever.  There should NEVER be rotting
>> > food.
>>
>> I wouldn't go as far as to say "never be dirty dishes ever", but
>> definitely the rotting food should never be an issue.  If you have
>> rotting food it means you have a situation where there isn't enough
>> shared information state within the group (kitchen group or
>> Noisebridge).  I bet we can fix that.
>>
>> Btw... Let's all, together, work on using the word "we" when
>> describing the shared use of resources that WE would like to better
>> maintain.  I'm guilty of contributing to the us-versus-them mentality
>> here too.  I'm going to try to stop that.
>>
>> --Naomi
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Every hackerspace is different since each has a different community.
>> > What
>> > works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.  Matt, you seem to be
>> > newish
>> > to noisebridge.  Please read over the past few years of meeting notes
>> > and
>> > the discuss list.
>> >
>> > Jenny you know noisebridge is a do ocracy.  Which means if you see
>> > something
>> > that needs doing you do it.  The problem is If you see dirty dishes and
>> > they
>> > always need doing, you won't get hacking done.   It is a complicated
>> > problem
>> > and requires a lot of thought to fix it.  With a space the size of
>> > noisebridge with as much foot traffic it gets (most likely at least 50+
>> > people a day), we need to actually have a team of people that does
>> > pretty
>> > much nothing but clean and keep up the space.  This includes constant
>> > organization, cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the bathrooms and teaching
>> > people about noisebridge.  Unfortunately we don't have enough people
>> > doing
>> > and many people just make messes (in the kitchen, in the hack shelf area
>> > and
>> > in the dirty shop).  They have been constant sources of contention.
>> > Removing the kitchen, as most people see it, is a simple way to
>> > drastically
>> > reduce the amount of flies, rodents, mold and other gross things in the
>> > space that are serious health issues.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now here is what I propose, there are TONS of people who want the
>> > kitchen
>> > apparently.  It would appear that the people who want the kitchen need
>> > to
>> > drastically step up their game.  There should NEVER be dirty dishes
>> > ever.
>> > There should NEVER be rotting food.  There should be dates on things
>> > when we
>> > put them anywhere.  There should be people cleaning their hands more
>> > (every
>> > time they touch themselves or their clothes during use of the kitchen).
>> > They should be instructed on proper food handling techniques.  Perhaps
>> > we
>> > should put some printouts from http://www.foodsafety.gov/.  There is a
>> > wealth of information.  If we have other people who have worked in
>> > restaurants, it would be really nice if we could arrange a weekly or
>> > daily
>> > perhaps instruction session to educate people.  Eventually the kitchen
>> > users
>> > would be well versed in how to keep a kitchen clean and happy.  Wanna
>> > come
>> > and do that?  Daily.  For the next month or two.  Maybe 3.  I can do
>> > that
>> > every day but Friday/Saturday for a little while since I have some
>> > birthday's to go to and friends in town.  Got time?
>> >
>> > On Apr 14, 2014 11:32 PM, "Jenny Ryan" <tunabananas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> >> Hash: SHA1
>> >>
>> >> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Command_Pattern
>> >>
>> >> ;)
>> >>
>> >> On Mon 14 Apr 2014 10:34:21 PM PDT, Naomi Most wrote:
>> >> > Are you encouraging us to update the page with better information,
>> >> > Matt?
>> >> > :)
>> >> >
>> >> > --Naomi
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 1:22 AM, Matthew Senate
>> >> > <mattsenate at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Kitchen_Pattern
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Gregory Dillon
>> >> >> <gregorydillon at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I'm in group (5) but I've also lost hope that a talking group or
>> >> >>> hand
>> >> >>> washing lessons will fix the problem.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> a deadline is good.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> That.  But having proper cleaning is important.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jessica Ross
>> >> >>>> <jessica.r.ross at gmail.com>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
>> >> >>>>> <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> And then...?
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Ronald Cotoni
>> >> >>>>>> <setient at gmail.com>
>> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> That is what I am saying.  Let's make them aware of the work
>> >> >>>>>>> involved
>> >> >>>>>>> to do it properly and see if they still want it.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> On Apr 14, 2014 4:35 PM, "Adrian Chadd"
>> >> >>>>>>> <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>
>> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> On 14 April 2014 16:32, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Part of kitchen cleaning is doing it daily.  And having a
>> >> >>>>>>>>> checklist.  That
>> >> >>>>>>>>> is how restaurants do it.  Sometimes multiple times daily.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Sure, but they also fire you if you don't do it.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> -a
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>> Jessica R. Ross
>> >> >>>>> jessica.r.ross at gmail.com
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>> Ronald Cotoni
>> >> >>>> Systems Engineer
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - --
>> >> Jenny
>> >> http://jennyryan.net
>> >> http://sudomesh.org
>> >> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
>> >> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
>> >>
>> >> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>> >> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
>> >> - -Laurie Anderson
>> >>
>> >> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
>> >> it."
>> >>  -Hannah Arendt
>> >>
>> >> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
>> >> - -Stéphane Mallarmé
>> >> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
>> >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>> >>
>> >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTNJYAAoJEHTWWpBUSeDhsa0IAJjtWsT0IwL27uvjUwTbHapt
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>> >> =bFj8
>> >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer



-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost


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