[Noisebridge-discuss] History of my member page on the wiki

VonGuard vonguard at gmail.com
Sat Feb 1 18:48:09 UTC 2014


Wow, Leif, that is some truly amazing radical inclusion you're practicing
all the way from Germany. Glad you can find time in your busy schedule to
denigrate someone 5,000 miles away involved in a hackerspace you can't
attend regularly.


On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:

> At this point Leif is willfully pretending the situation is something it's
> not after it's been directly explained. Here're the facts:
>
> * Ron became a member at last Tuesday's meeting after his application had
> been in the binder for four weeks and it passed consensus.
> * The next day some anonymous wiki vandal marked Ron's page as not being a
> member. There have been a lot of troll edits on the wiki in the last few
> days (more than just the usual spambots).
> * Ron said he hadn't been blocked, referring to the previous day's
> consensus decision.
>
> "He explicitly stated that it never happened." Leif, even if Ron was
> referring to the events years in the past rather than *the previous day*,
> he would still be right: he withdrew his application, it was never brought
> to consensus and you never actually blocked it.
>
> -Al
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 05:38:23PM -0800, Al Sweigart wrote:
>> > On a related note: This is a perfect example of how consensus stifles
>> > debate & communication instead of encouraging it: Leif didn't even have
>> to
>> > block, he just had to say he would. That's enough to cause someone to
>> > quietly withdraw their proposal and no one else would ever know about.
>> >
>> > -Al
>>
>> I think it was an example of consensus working well, until it was
>> circumvented.
>>
>> In my opinion it was unnecessary to spend everyone's time (including
>> plenty of
>> people who don't/didn't know him) talking about it, but Ron or anyone else
>> could always have brought it up at a meeting if they wanted input from
>> more
>> people.
>>
>> > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > Point of fact: Leif never blocked his membership. Ron withdrew it.
>>
>> He withdrew it because I told him (and others) that I was blocking it.
>>
>> > > Three people asked Leif why he said he'd block his membership;
>> apparently
>> > > they disagreed with his "Ron is a troll" accusation and probably
>> thought he
>> > > would be fine for membership.
>>
>> Actually people who I think are mutual friends of Ron's and mine, after
>> asking
>> me why I'd blocked his membership, essentially told me that they thought
>> my
>> assessment was correct (that he was likely to escalate potential
>> conflicts in
>> Noisebridge discussions for entertainment value).
>>
>> > > I don't think Ron forgot it, but I can see why you are asking if he
>> did:
>> > > it's a two year old accusation.
>>
>> He didn't just omit it, though: He explicitly stated that it never
>> happened. I
>> think he was assuming (somewhat correctly) that I wasn't paying close
>> enough
>> attention to Noisebridge lately and might not notice.
>>
>> ~leif
>>
>> > > -Al
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:03 PM, bfb <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Omitting this information from discussion is classical "not on good
>> > >> faith". Ron, did you forget that Leif had blocked your membership?
>> > >>
>> > >> -Kevin
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> -------- Original message --------
>> > >> From: Al Sweigart
>> > >> Date:01/30/2014 09:47 (GMT-08:00)
>> > >> To: Leif Ryge
>> > >> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss
>> > >> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] History of my member page on the
>> wiki
>> > >>
>> > >> That was years ago, Leif. You're not exactly up on current events at
>> > >> Noisebridge. https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_01_28
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 4:47 AM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us>
>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 07:53:01PM -0800, Ronald Cotoni wrote:
>> > >>> > I have no idea who changed it but my membership was never blocked.
>> > >>>  [...]
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Huh? How can you say your membership was never blocked? We had a
>> > >>> conversation
>> > >>> about why I wasn't comfortable with you being a member, which
>> resulted
>> > >>> in you
>> > >>> withdrawing your membership application. I'm quite certain that you
>> > >>> interpreted
>> > >>> this conversation (as I did) as me blocking your membership,
>> because at
>> > >>> least 3
>> > >>> other people asked me later why I'd blocked your membership.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> My primary reason for blocking your membership, as you'll recall,
>> was
>> > >>> that I
>> > >>> believe your participation in Noisebridge meetings and discussions
>> is
>> > >>> largely
>> > >>> disingenuous and "for the lulz" (read: you're a troll). Your claim
>> above
>> > >>> that
>> > >>> your membership was "never blocked" after you'd specifically
>> complained
>> > >>> to
>> > >>> other people that it was is a good example of this assessment being
>> > >>> correct.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ~leif
>> > >>>
>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >
>>
>
>
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