[Noisebridge-discuss] "Banning" discussion tonight

Naomi Most pnaomi at gmail.com
Wed Feb 26 03:50:20 UTC 2014


I would say that the only permanently binding "rule" at Noisebridge is:

Be Excellent to Each Other

Everything else is an experiment.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would say whatever is in the bylaws and on the wiki is what it is.   I
> believe that means a hackerspa ce that has a community that has issues
> dealing with things due to a variety of issues one being victim blaming and
> others being unable to effectively deal with most basic issues.   What do
> you think noisebridge is?
>
> On Feb 25, 2014 7:38 PM, "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
>>
>> First off -- empirically speaking, the harassment policy is being
>> vehemently NOT ignored, but rather vehemently enforced.
>>
>> What you're observing is the tumult that's occurring because this
>> policy and subsequent process are taking the place of
>> community resolution.
>>
>> What you should be asking yourself is whether Noisebridge should be
>> thought of as a "community" or as a hack-space vending machine.  If
>> the former, then we need to take better care of each other and not
>> characterize the world as black and white.  If the latter, then hey,
>> why don't we close the space at 11pm and hire security guards.
>>
>> --Naomi
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 7:01 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I am going to take this thread as the harassment policy has failed and
>> > is
>> > being blatently ignored.   Should we just not have one anymore?
>> >
>> > On Feb 25, 2014 6:53 PM, "Ronald Cotoni" <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Huh.
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 25, 2014 6:48 PM, "Naomi Gmail" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Uh, maybe some input from the involved parties?!? before leaping to
>> >>> conclusions like that?
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Then this is pretty clear that it is harassment.   Right?   What more
>> >>> information do we need?
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:32 PM, "Charles Tang" <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I don't think mediation between Tom and Lee is a good idea.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I mean Lee seems to want Toms attention for some reason.
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Can you help lee with getting a consensus item on the docket or
>> >>>>> perhaps
>> >>>>> mediation?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:23 PM, "Naomi Gmail" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I could have blocked as well, but thought MCT had it covered.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Honestly I just didn't think the proposal would go through. I see
>> >>>>>> it
>> >>>>>> as a failure of community and an abuse of bureaucracy that it did
>> >>>>>> go
>> >>>>>> through. So I am coming tonight to learn more.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 6:18 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> MCT agreed to proxy-block for me several weeks ago. He was at the
>> >>>>>> meeting 2 weeks ago when the matter was expected to be discussed,
>> >>>>>> however it
>> >>>>>> wasn't brought up. Last week MCT wasn't at the meeting so I had no
>> >>>>>> representation.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I work Tuesday evenings so am generally unable to attend meetings
>> >>>>>> but
>> >>>>>> I found a substitute tonight.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I hope we can all discuss this matter together.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Lee
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:07 PM, "Ronald Cotoni" <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Lee was aware and Lee chose for a long time to not come to
>> >>>>>>> meetings
>> >>>>>>> or get someone else to proxy block.  I suggest you get a deeper
>> >>>>>>> understanding of how consensus works and why it is the way it is.
>> >>>>>>> It was
>> >>>>>>> to give him time, which he ignored sadly and has to deal with the
>> >>>>>>> consequences now.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:00 PM, "Charles Tang" <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The second person who answers by come to a meeting.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> These answers are fluid, which is the reason why Johnny asked for
>> >>>>>>>> clarification on GitHub.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> We need a better understanding and conceptualizer for banning.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I made my case with Lee. It seems to me he was just being
>> >>>>>>>> annoying
>> >>>>>>>> to Tom. Now, others do annoying things to me all the time, but I
>> >>>>>>>> don't
>> >>>>>>>> exclude.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The problem here is a failure to communicate, to ask, to
>> >>>>>>>> "participate", to educate and to help.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Indeed, the community is fractured. Indeed, people can be
>> >>>>>>>> annoying
>> >>>>>>>> Indeed, people can do bad things.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> But, goodness is fragile. Moreover, exclusion is not the answer
>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>> our problems. Inquisitions to rid ourselves of alternatives
>> >>>>>>>> forecloses
>> >>>>>>>> opportunity for us all.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> And movements fail. . . .
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Ronald Cotoni
>> >>>>>>>> <setient at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Come to a meeting.  Read the bylaws and look at the wiki.  These
>> >>>>>>>>> questions can be answered by those things
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 5:47 PM, "Charles Tang" <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Is active member defined be the label "member" or is it define
>> >>>>>>>>>> by
>> >>>>>>>>>> those who are "active."
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Or is there really a mythical "active member"
>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Adrian Chadd
>> >>>>>>>>>> <adrian.chadd at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2014 17:42, Darius Garza <313kid at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> > "A ban from the Noisebridge space may be a useful social
>> >>>>>>>>>>> > punishment for a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> > social crime"
>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>> > Noisebridge is a lot of things, but it certainly isn't up to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> > anyone to use
>> >>>>>>>>>>> > it as a "social punishment" tool.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ... noisebridge is apparently whatever the active membership
>> >>>>>>>>>>> decide it
>> >>>>>>>>>>> is. I thought that was the point.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> -a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost



-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost


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