[Noisebridge-discuss] why is sleeping at noisebridge a problem?

Al Sweigart asweigart at gmail.com
Thu Mar 6 06:50:17 UTC 2014


> 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.

> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.

> Don't be an ass.

> You're an ass.

Charles, criticism is welcome. Direct, blunt criticism is as well. But do
not resort to name-calling and cussing at Jake or anyone else on the
mailing list.

-Al


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:

> Deconstruction:
>
> "When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't
> sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard
> thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping
> quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy."
>
> Don't use the word crazy, and I don't think there are established sleeping
> spots at noise-bridge.
>
> "sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when people don't
> get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic.  read this:
>
> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2013174a.html"
>
> We all know there is an association between sleeping and mental health.
> But, lack of sleep doesn't actually make an individual "schizophrenic." The
> article is about mice. Nice one, you're a jerk.
>
>
> "schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the cleaning
> of the brain, even if they sleep enough.  When we allow people to depend on
> noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become aggressively
> defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the shadows catching
> minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and more insane.""
>
> Neither of these individuals were or are schizophrenic.
>
> You're an ass.
>
> If anyone would like to discuss not using crypto-language, not using
> references to youtube music videos or mice, I'd prefer to talk in person.
>
>
> On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Here is my thought:
>>
>> 1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to
>> sleep at noise-bridge.
>>
>> 2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive.
>>
>> 3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An individuals
>> "ability level" should not constitute exclusion.
>>
>> 4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals,
>> marginalizing these individuals.
>>
>> 5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any
>> other person could do: http://schizophrenia.com/famous
>>
>> 6.  They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.
>>
>> 7.  Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand.
>>
>> 8.  Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an
>> exclusion.
>>
>> 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>
>> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>
>> An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of criticism.
>> Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right? What if it
>> were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just happens to
>> stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you decide to
>> carve this population out) wouldn't.
>>
>> Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior.
>>
>>
>> On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is my thought:
>>>
>>> 1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to
>>> sleep at noise-bridge.
>>>
>>> 2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive.
>>>
>>> 3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An individuals
>>> "ability level" should not constitute exclusion.
>>>
>>> 4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals,
>>> marginalizing these individuals.
>>>
>>> 5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any
>>> other person could do: http://schizophrenia.com/famous
>>>
>>> 6.  They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.
>>>
>>> 7.  Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand.
>>>
>>> 8.  Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an
>>> exclusion.
>>>
>>> 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>>
>>> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>>
>>> An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of criticism.
>>> Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right? What if it
>>> were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just happens to
>>> stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you decide to
>>> carve this population out) wouldn't.
>>>
>>> Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 March 2014 22:14, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Charles, I know it's fun to make jokes, but this is an issue that a lot
>>>> of people would like to have serious discussion about. We welcome your
>>>> input, but keep the comedy to a minimum.
>>>>
>>>> -Al
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And yes, all of us schizophrenics are such terrible people. We are
>>>>> such terrible people and should just sit in our apartments and smoke all
>>>>> day long.
>>>>>
>>>>> So everyone at the NSA, or otherwise, can tapp their phones while they
>>>>> are off, and so everyone can freak out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I should buy a $10 burner phone, for "insurance."
>>>>>
>>>>> Just incase.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:07, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dude, sleepers are NSA agents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This has been established.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lets use better crytpo-language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5 March 2014 21:36, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I pretty much agree.  I still think we need more people around ALL
>>>>>>> THE TIME to solve these issues with the way noisebridge is designed.  We
>>>>>>> simply don't have enough right now.  We are talking about some house rules
>>>>>>> for noisebridge which may or may not address this issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am disturbed to see that people still don't understand why it's a
>>>>>>>> problem that people sleep at noisebridge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not because it's against the lease, although this is true.
>>>>>>>>  It's because it fucks up our ability to have a hackerspace and submerges
>>>>>>>> us in roommate drama.  seriously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> San Francisco is a very expensive place to rent a room.  This means
>>>>>>>> that any place people can sleep for free is very valuable.  As long as
>>>>>>>> noisebridge allows people to sleep, those people will be very strongly
>>>>>>>> motivated to maintain their access to that sleeping space, regardless of
>>>>>>>> the consequences to the culture and function of that space in general.  It
>>>>>>>> seems that Josh/N0_HAT was/is defending his "turf" with aggression and
>>>>>>>> whatever tactics would wear down the community enough to keep his spot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't
>>>>>>>> sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard
>>>>>>>> thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping
>>>>>>>> quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when people
>>>>>>>> don't get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic.  read this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2013174a.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the
>>>>>>>> cleaning of the brain, even if they sleep enough.  When we allow people to
>>>>>>>> depend on noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become
>>>>>>>> aggressively defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the
>>>>>>>> shadows catching minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and
>>>>>>>> more insane.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both of these behaviors are destructive to our safe space and take
>>>>>>>> away from our ability to have a nice hackerspace where we can gather as a
>>>>>>>> community.  The solution is to refuse entry to noisebridge by people who
>>>>>>>> use the space as a sleeping place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If anyone has a problem with disallowing people from the space who
>>>>>>>> are known to sleep there, I recommend that they invite these people into
>>>>>>>> their own homes instead of being hypocritical and making it everyone else's
>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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