[Noisebridge-discuss] why is sleeping at noisebridge a problem?

Al Sweigart asweigart at gmail.com
Thu Mar 6 06:59:04 UTC 2014


Charles, a heated conversation can be constructive, but an uncivil
conversation cannot. If you can't keep from cussing at people, don't
participate in the thread.

-Al


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:54 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:

> The same can be used for the word "crazy."
>
> At least my name calling was divorced from an individuals identity. It was
> related to actions and statements constituting his identity within a short
> context or moment, not that his functional being was that of a donkey.
>
>
> On 5 March 2014 22:50, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>
>> > 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>
>> > Don't be an ass.
>>
>> > You're an ass.
>>
>> Charles, criticism is welcome. Direct, blunt criticism is as well. But do
>> not resort to name-calling and cussing at Jake or anyone else on the
>> mailing list.
>>
>> -Al
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Deconstruction:
>>>
>>> "When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't
>>> sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard
>>> thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping
>>> quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy."
>>>
>>> Don't use the word crazy, and I don't think there are established
>>> sleeping spots at noise-bridge.
>>>
>>> "sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when people
>>> don't get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic.  read this:
>>>
>>> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2013174a.html"
>>>
>>> We all know there is an association between sleeping and mental health.
>>> But, lack of sleep doesn't actually make an individual "schizophrenic." The
>>> article is about mice. Nice one, you're a jerk.
>>>
>>>
>>> "schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the
>>> cleaning of the brain, even if they sleep enough.  When we allow people to
>>> depend on noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become
>>> aggressively defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the
>>> shadows catching minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and
>>> more insane.""
>>>
>>> Neither of these individuals were or are schizophrenic.
>>>
>>> You're an ass.
>>>
>>> If anyone would like to discuss not using crypto-language, not using
>>> references to youtube music videos or mice, I'd prefer to talk in person.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here is my thought:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to
>>>> sleep at noise-bridge.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An individuals
>>>> "ability level" should not constitute exclusion.
>>>>
>>>> 4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals,
>>>> marginalizing these individuals.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any
>>>> other person could do: http://schizophrenia.com/famous
>>>>
>>>> 6.  They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand.
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an
>>>> exclusion.
>>>>
>>>> 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>>>
>>>> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>>>
>>>> An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of criticism.
>>>> Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right? What if it
>>>> were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just happens to
>>>> stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you decide to
>>>> carve this population out) wouldn't.
>>>>
>>>> Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here is my thought:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to
>>>>> sleep at noise-bridge.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An
>>>>> individuals "ability level" should not constitute exclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals,
>>>>> marginalizing these individuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any
>>>>> other person could do: http://schizophrenia.com/famous
>>>>>
>>>>> 6.  They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7.  Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.  Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an
>>>>> exclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>>>>
>>>>> An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of criticism.
>>>>> Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right? What if it
>>>>> were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just happens to
>>>>> stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you decide to
>>>>> carve this population out) wouldn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:14, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles, I know it's fun to make jokes, but this is an issue that a
>>>>>> lot of people would like to have serious discussion about. We welcome your
>>>>>> input, but keep the comedy to a minimum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Al
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yes, all of us schizophrenics are such terrible people. We are
>>>>>>> such terrible people and should just sit in our apartments and smoke all
>>>>>>> day long.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So everyone at the NSA, or otherwise, can tapp their phones while
>>>>>>> they are off, and so everyone can freak out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I should buy a $10 burner phone, for "insurance."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just incase.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:07, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dude, sleepers are NSA agents.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This has been established.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lets use better crytpo-language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5 March 2014 21:36, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I pretty much agree.  I still think we need more people around ALL
>>>>>>>>> THE TIME to solve these issues with the way noisebridge is designed.  We
>>>>>>>>> simply don't have enough right now.  We are talking about some house rules
>>>>>>>>> for noisebridge which may or may not address this issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am disturbed to see that people still don't understand why it's
>>>>>>>>>> a problem that people sleep at noisebridge.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not because it's against the lease, although this is true.
>>>>>>>>>>  It's because it fucks up our ability to have a hackerspace and submerges
>>>>>>>>>> us in roommate drama.  seriously.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> San Francisco is a very expensive place to rent a room.  This
>>>>>>>>>> means that any place people can sleep for free is very valuable.  As long
>>>>>>>>>> as noisebridge allows people to sleep, those people will be very strongly
>>>>>>>>>> motivated to maintain their access to that sleeping space, regardless of
>>>>>>>>>> the consequences to the culture and function of that space in general.  It
>>>>>>>>>> seems that Josh/N0_HAT was/is defending his "turf" with aggression and
>>>>>>>>>> whatever tactics would wear down the community enough to keep his spot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't
>>>>>>>>>> sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard
>>>>>>>>>> thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping
>>>>>>>>>> quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when
>>>>>>>>>> people don't get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic.  read this:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/
>>>>>>>>>> mp2013174a.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the
>>>>>>>>>> cleaning of the brain, even if they sleep enough.  When we allow people to
>>>>>>>>>> depend on noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become
>>>>>>>>>> aggressively defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the
>>>>>>>>>> shadows catching minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and
>>>>>>>>>> more insane.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Both of these behaviors are destructive to our safe space and
>>>>>>>>>> take away from our ability to have a nice hackerspace where we can gather
>>>>>>>>>> as a community.  The solution is to refuse entry to noisebridge by people
>>>>>>>>>> who use the space as a sleeping place.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If anyone has a problem with disallowing people from the space
>>>>>>>>>> who are known to sleep there, I recommend that they invite these people
>>>>>>>>>> into their own homes instead of being hypocritical and making it everyone
>>>>>>>>>> else's problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>>>>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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