[Noisebridge-discuss] why is sleeping at noisebridge a problem?

Charles Tang cjtang1 at asu.edu
Thu Mar 6 07:01:47 UTC 2014


That's fine.


On 5 March 2014 22:59, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:

> Charles, a heated conversation can be constructive, but an uncivil
> conversation cannot. If you can't keep from cussing at people, don't
> participate in the thread.
>
> -Al
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:54 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>
>> The same can be used for the word "crazy."
>>
>> At least my name calling was divorced from an individuals identity. It
>> was related to actions and statements constituting his identity within a
>> short context or moment, not that his functional being was that of a
>> donkey.
>>
>>
>> On 5 March 2014 22:50, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>>
>>> > 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>>
>>> > Don't be an ass.
>>>
>>> > You're an ass.
>>>
>>> Charles, criticism is welcome. Direct, blunt criticism is as well. But
>>> do not resort to name-calling and cussing at Jake or anyone else on the
>>> mailing list.
>>>
>>> -Al
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Deconstruction:
>>>>
>>>> "When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't
>>>> sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard
>>>> thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping
>>>> quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy."
>>>>
>>>> Don't use the word crazy, and I don't think there are established
>>>> sleeping spots at noise-bridge.
>>>>
>>>> "sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when people
>>>> don't get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic.  read this:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2013174a.html"
>>>>
>>>> We all know there is an association between sleeping and mental health.
>>>> But, lack of sleep doesn't actually make an individual "schizophrenic." The
>>>> article is about mice. Nice one, you're a jerk.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the
>>>> cleaning of the brain, even if they sleep enough.  When we allow people to
>>>> depend on noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become
>>>> aggressively defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the
>>>> shadows catching minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and
>>>> more insane.""
>>>>
>>>> Neither of these individuals were or are schizophrenic.
>>>>
>>>> You're an ass.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone would like to discuss not using crypto-language, not using
>>>> references to youtube music videos or mice, I'd prefer to talk in person.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here is my thought:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to
>>>>> sleep at noise-bridge.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An
>>>>> individuals "ability level" should not constitute exclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals,
>>>>> marginalizing these individuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any
>>>>> other person could do: http://schizophrenia.com/famous
>>>>>
>>>>> 6.  They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7.  Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.  Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an
>>>>> exclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>>>>
>>>>> An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of criticism.
>>>>> Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right? What if it
>>>>> were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just happens to
>>>>> stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you decide to
>>>>> carve this population out) wouldn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is my thought:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to
>>>>>> sleep at noise-bridge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An
>>>>>> individuals "ability level" should not constitute exclusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals,
>>>>>> marginalizing these individuals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any
>>>>>> other person could do: http://schizophrenia.com/famous
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.  They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.  Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.  Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an
>>>>>> exclusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.  The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of
>>>>>> criticism. Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right?
>>>>>> What if it were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just
>>>>>> happens to stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you
>>>>>> decide to carve this population out) wouldn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:14, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charles, I know it's fun to make jokes, but this is an issue that a
>>>>>>> lot of people would like to have serious discussion about. We welcome your
>>>>>>> input, but keep the comedy to a minimum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Al
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yes, all of us schizophrenics are such terrible people. We are
>>>>>>>> such terrible people and should just sit in our apartments and smoke all
>>>>>>>> day long.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So everyone at the NSA, or otherwise, can tapp their phones while
>>>>>>>> they are off, and so everyone can freak out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe I should buy a $10 burner phone, for "insurance."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just incase.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5 March 2014 22:07, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dude, sleepers are NSA agents.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This has been established.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lets use better crytpo-language.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5 March 2014 21:36, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much agree.  I still think we need more people around
>>>>>>>>>> ALL THE TIME to solve these issues with the way noisebridge is designed.
>>>>>>>>>>  We simply don't have enough right now.  We are talking about some house
>>>>>>>>>> rules for noisebridge which may or may not address this issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am disturbed to see that people still don't understand why
>>>>>>>>>>> it's a problem that people sleep at noisebridge.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not because it's against the lease, although this is true.
>>>>>>>>>>>  It's because it fucks up our ability to have a hackerspace and submerges
>>>>>>>>>>> us in roommate drama.  seriously.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> San Francisco is a very expensive place to rent a room.  This
>>>>>>>>>>> means that any place people can sleep for free is very valuable.  As long
>>>>>>>>>>> as noisebridge allows people to sleep, those people will be very strongly
>>>>>>>>>>> motivated to maintain their access to that sleeping space, regardless of
>>>>>>>>>>> the consequences to the culture and function of that space in general.  It
>>>>>>>>>>> seems that Josh/N0_HAT was/is defending his "turf" with aggression and
>>>>>>>>>>> whatever tactics would wear down the community enough to keep his spot.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>> sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard
>>>>>>>>>>> thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping
>>>>>>>>>>> quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when
>>>>>>>>>>> people don't get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic.  read this:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/
>>>>>>>>>>> mp2013174a.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the
>>>>>>>>>>> cleaning of the brain, even if they sleep enough.  When we allow people to
>>>>>>>>>>> depend on noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become
>>>>>>>>>>> aggressively defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the
>>>>>>>>>>> shadows catching minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and
>>>>>>>>>>> more insane.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Both of these behaviors are destructive to our safe space and
>>>>>>>>>>> take away from our ability to have a nice hackerspace where we can gather
>>>>>>>>>>> as a community.  The solution is to refuse entry to noisebridge by people
>>>>>>>>>>> who use the space as a sleeping place.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone has a problem with disallowing people from the space
>>>>>>>>>>> who are known to sleep there, I recommend that they invite these people
>>>>>>>>>>> into their own homes instead of being hypocritical and making it everyone
>>>>>>>>>>> else's problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>>>>>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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