[Noisebridge-discuss] why i am complaining

Jake jake at spaz.org
Thu May 8 19:37:00 UTC 2014


Thanks Naomi.

I understand that Tom is out of the picture now, but i am still turned off 
by the responses I got from other people when i complained about him, 
before it was cool to complain about Tom if you know what i mean.

As for the proposal I made, it is still out there and if someone other 
than me thinks it's a good idea they are welcome to introduce it, although 
there is so much confusion now about the members/associate members 
policies that I really don't even know if it would merge.

-jake

On Thu, 8 May 2014, Naomi Most wrote:

> Thanks, Jake, that was helpful.
>
> It should be known that Tom has been barred from coming to Noisebridge
> until he can be present at a meeting to discuss a proposal to revoke
> his Membership.
>
> Chief among the grievances of the community about Tom is his pattern
> of abuse of Consensus.
>
> --Naomi
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> the reason that you hear me complain, or johny complain, or other people
>> complain without doing anything is this:
>>
>> no one person is capable of making the broad and systematic changes to
>> noisebridge that are necessary to turn it around in the other direction.
>>
>> so when people enumerate problems to the list, the implication should be
>> that they are seeking cooperation to make large changes.
>>
>> my experience with noisebridge is that when i do that, people take turns
>> writing snarky "responses" to my complaints and don't address the problems
>> at all.  Or they minimize the problem while boasting about their special way
>> of being unaffected by them.  In short, people do the opposite of offering
>> their support in making requested improvements.
>>
>> For a while i was coming to meetings and trying to introduce carefully
>> crafted changes to noisebridge that I thought would improve things.  I
>> introduced associate membership so that we could discern between non-Members
>> who wanted to be part of nb and non-Members who just wanted to take
>> advantage of a place without rules or boundaries.
>>
>> At some point one of my suggestions got implemented differently than I had
>> envisioned, since I hadn't been at the meeting and honestly didn't expect it
>> to get screwed up the way it did, but it did.
>>
>> So I wrote a proposal to repair the wording to the "noisebridge is only for
>> members and associate members" thing and sent it to the list repeatedly over
>> many weeks, asking for concerns or suggestions from everyone.  No one had
>> any problems with it, which was unsurprising because it was a carefully
>> written proposal with nothing contraversial in it.
>>
>> At the meeting, Tom blocked it.  I asked why and he refused to engage in
>> discussions.  I asked him to meet with me at the time and place of his
>> choosing to discuss his blocking and he stalled and ignored my emails.
>>
>> Eventually I wrote a complaint to the list.  The flood of abusive responses
>> to my complaint was the only result, with the exception of a couple of
>> threads by good people pointing out "actually, blocking a consensus item
>> DOES deserve explanation... what kind of process are you people running over
>> there?"
>>
>> You should be glad that people are "complaining-without-doing" when problems
>> are too big to solve alone, because the alternative is giving up.
>>
>> -jake
>>
>> On Thu, 8 May 2014, Naomi Most wrote:
>>
>>> I admit to being fairly annoyed at Johny's post (and yours, a little).
>>> Part of that comes from having taken too much modafinil this morning.
>>>
>>> The reason I am annoyed is that there's a pattern of
>>> complaining-without-doing that I would like to break.
>>>
>>> Jake, I know you have been frustrated in the past.  Positive changes
>>> are occurring in the Noisebridge culture that might enable you be
>>> effective in improving the space, should you feel you would like to
>>> participate.
>>>
>>> --Naomi
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> sorry, i didn't notice that you were opening other threads and thought
>>>> that
>>>> this was all you had to say about johny's complaints.
>>>>
>>>> i still feel that there needs to be much better treatment of people
>>>> enumerating problems than there is, including your reception of johny's
>>>> post.  Being supportive of one another when we are trying to make
>>>> improvements is essential.  The alternative, what is happening, is that
>>>> people don't want to help because they just get yelled at.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -jake
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 8 May 2014, Naomi Most wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, I commented that the majority of his grievances came down to his
>>>>> personal opinions of a handful of people.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have now devoted several new email threads TO Johny's complaints, in
>>>>> what I hope is a very constructive manner.  I'd say that's the polar
>>>>> opposite of dismissing someone's concerns irrelevant.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Naomi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when I read Johny's post I was glad that someone else was noticing
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> that I consider problems.  Yes some of the things on the list might
>>>>>> seem
>>>>>> less important than others, depending on who is reading them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that when a person presents a list of complaints like this,
>>>>>> rather
>>>>>> than telling the person that their grievances are invalid because you
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> agree with some of them, we should try to talk about the problems we
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> agree on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main reason I can't continue trying to help noisebridge is because
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> I complained about things, i was attacked and my complaints mocked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you just told johny his list of concerns was irrelavent, in one
>>>>>> sentence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 8 May 2014, Naomi Most wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Johny,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The majority of those bulletpoints are your personal opinions about
>>>>>>> other people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Naomi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>>> From: "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am asking because I want to see if/how Jake's perspective has
>>>>>>>>> changed,
>>>>>>>>> and whether he's aware of what's already changed in a direction that
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> might like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Naomi, i'd sure like to know what's changed for the better:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Tonight i went to NB to look for some mosfets. There were piles upon
>>>>>>>> piles
>>>>>>>> of garbage mixed with useful parts all over the floor, worst i've
>>>>>>>> ever
>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>> it (some dedicated Members cleaned and organized not long ago-- all
>>>>>>>> gone
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> crap).
>>>>>>>> -A non-member has, for a couple weeks or longer, been systematically
>>>>>>>> digging
>>>>>>>> through EVERYTHING in the Member stacks, taking what he wants, and
>>>>>>>> leaving
>>>>>>>> the rest all over the floor of the member stacks. It's now a complete
>>>>>>>> disaster in there.
>>>>>>>> -All the component storage cleanup and organizing i did over several
>>>>>>>> weeks
>>>>>>>> has also gone to crap. Useful stuff mixed with random junk all over
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> floor, parts completely disorganized.
>>>>>>>> -A HACKER came to solder some cables (poor fool). He searched for
>>>>>>>> solder
>>>>>>>> amidst the piles of garbage for half an hour and, hey, found a couple
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> inches!
>>>>>>>> -I met a woman who informed me that she could not get a bed at a
>>>>>>>> shelter,
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> she came to Noisebridge.
>>>>>>>> -Various other non-hacking non-members were hanging out.
>>>>>>>> -I heard there's a new Kitchen Working Group, peopled by non-hacking,
>>>>>>>> non-member kitchen-users (appointed, Vee said, by Gregory Dillon).
>>>>>>>> Gregory,
>>>>>>>> i suggest you also create a group called "Sleeping Taskforce"-- you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> appoint some squatters.
>>>>>>>> -Vee said "people who use the kitchen have laptops-- isn't that
>>>>>>>> hacking?"
>>>>>>>> -I watched as a Member stretched an electric extension cord across a
>>>>>>>> walkway
>>>>>>>> (I guess he missed the email about not doing that).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So please tell us Naomi, where is the positive change you mentioned.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> see it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JAKE, is this change in the direction you'd like? Ready to come
>>>>>>>> back??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>
>>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>>
>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>
>>> skype: nthmost
>>>
>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>


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