[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise

Henner Zeller h.zeller at acm.org
Sun May 3 02:09:42 UTC 2015


On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi noisebridge,
>
> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings
> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with format
> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>
> Proposition:
> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non
> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my code
> here:
>
> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>
> Before
> member - 24h a day
> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
> user - from 11 to 21h59
>
> After
> member - 24h a day
> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>

Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last item has
not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
now until we have come to a conclusion.


>
> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors could
> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could give
> help with databases.
>

I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think he meant
that
anybody can create a token.


>
> Question:
> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is
> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you
> think it would be unsecured.
>

Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in winter-time, this
might
be pretty late.


>
> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened today
> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code of
> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
> javascript. I can help on it.


Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is open'
indicator somewhere.
(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)


>
> Last thoughts:
> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related to
> the sunrise, is, so cool!
> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>

(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just makes
it
harder to reason when the space is open.)


>
> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or
> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>

I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a web
interface.


>
> Olivier
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>
>
>
>
>
> kjs:
> > jarrod hicks:
> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one perk -
> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
> >>
> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks now.
> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already say
> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with there
> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
> >
> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own this,
> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,
> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling entirely in
> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires consensus
> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed 'responsibleness' and
> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I am
> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I prefer
> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
> >
> >>
> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress we
> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for users
> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a greater
> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular hours.
> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in the
> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a strong
> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the
> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if they
> >> are not.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of
> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,
> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for this
> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to
> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In the
> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage, where
> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed both
> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and
> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or going out
> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we can
> > find a middle way where all are content.
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of people
> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more critical
> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has issued a key
> to folks on the 86'ed list.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
> >>>> Noisebridge?
> >>>>
> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
> >>>>
> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid, Rob
> >>>> 2.0, and
> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with giving
> >>>> identified
> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that the
> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the state
> >>>> of
> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify as. My
> >>>> entries
> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net". You'd be
> hard
> >>>> pressed
> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal" name.
> >>>>
> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they deanonymize
> >>>> themselves
> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable for
> >>>> shitting
> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in the
> >>>> woodshop
> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in and
> >>>> shits in
> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that they
> >>>> don't
> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know who
> did
> >>>> it and
> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the woodshop.
> >>>> Don't let
> >>>> her back in."?
> >>>>
> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a technical
> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically validate
> >>>> someone's
> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it
> >>>> completely
> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to be a
> >>>> member to
> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm pretty
> >>>> much a
> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to know
> >>>> someone and
> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having 24/7
> >>>> access.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
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