[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91, Issue 19

Barry Fruitman barry at fruitman.me
Mon May 18 16:31:22 UTC 2015


Remove
On May 18, 2015 5:00 AM, <noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net>
wrote:

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> than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91,   Issue 4 (Mohamed Shakir)
>    2. Fedora on the 3d printer (Torrie Fischer)
>    3. Always be creating!! (Romy at snowyla)
>    4. More destress drawings (Romy at snowyla)
>    5. The windows are clean! It's excellent (Patrick O'Doherty)
>    6. Accepting CC donations @ Noisebridge (Patrick O'Doherty)
>    7. CCCamp 2015,      are you going? Camping with Noiseburg? (Rubin Abdi)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mohamed Shakir <mo.shakirma at gmail.com>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:54:46 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91,
> Issue 4
> is anyone planing to come today before noon? the doors are locked.
> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 05:00 <
> noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:
>
>> Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to
>>         noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         noisebridge-discuss-owner at lists.noisebridge.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Javascript, Spanish Workshop,     Network with Mexico City
>>       hackerspace (Eric Hulburd)
>>    2. Re: SF Linux Fest (Ryan Rix)
>>    3. HP Printer (Torrie Fischer)
>>    4. Re: HP Printer (Teapot)
>>    5. 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient (Torrie Fischer)
>>    6.  Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Olivier Laleu)
>>    7. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)
>>    8. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)
>>    9. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (kjs)
>>   10. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)
>>   11. Re: 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient (Josh Juran)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Eric Hulburd <ehulburd at gmail.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:09:30 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Javascript, Spanish Workshop, Network with
>> Mexico City hackerspace
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm visiting San Francisco this month and I'm working out of Noisebridge
>> (originally from SF).
>>
>> I've been living in Mexico City and have been doing some workshops at a
>> hackerspace down there - Rancho Electrico <http://ranchoelectronico.org/>
>> .
>>
>> It would be rad to create some connections between the spaces. If anyone
>> is interested in:
>>
>>    - helping me with the javascript workshops by leading the workshops
>>    online w/ google hangout, skype or whatever you prefer (there's definitely
>>    a desire to learn to code, availability of skilled programmers willing to
>>    spend time teaching is a limitation),
>>    - want to learn spanish and would be interested in organizing a
>>    spanish language workshop,
>>    - are interested in what role internet and tech freedom can play in
>>    fighting corruption on both sides of the border
>>
>> contact me.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Eric Hulburd
>>
>> Oroeco.com <http://www.oroeco.com/>
>> Twitter: @oyecalifornia <https://twitter.com/oyecalifornia>
>> Ciudad de México
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Ryan Rix <ryan at whatthefuck.computer>
>> To: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:28:52 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] SF Linux Fest
>> Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net> writes:
>> > Hei, noisebridge :3
>> >
>> > I'm up here at Linux Fest Northwest where I've had my passion for free
>> > software reinvigorated and renewed.
>> >
>> > Its inspired me to bring about something like LFNW or even LibrePlanet
>> in SF
>> > by starting it at Noisebridge. The problem though is that I've been,
>> > unfortunately, completely burnt out of free software over the last few
>> years.
>> > So I'm a bit out of the loop as to what local activities might already
>> be
>> > happening.
>> >
>> > Anyone got pointers of where I should look for an existing community in
>> the
>> > bay area outside of Noisebridge?
>>
>> We're bootstrapping an Emacs Conference in SF right now, would be great
>> to pool resources on these two things, given their overlap.
>>
>> http://emacsconf.github.io/emacsconf2015/
>>
>> r
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 15:13:25 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] HP Printer
>> I'm reclaiming the HP printer I brought in a long while ago. It has more
>> or
>> less been totally supplanted by the nice butt-connected black brother
>> printer
>> from Rubin.
>>
>> No sense in keeping two printers around if nobody can figure out how to
>> use one
>> of them.
>>
>> Unless there are objections, of course.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Teapot <hi at asmallteapot.com>
>> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 16:25:05 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] HP Printer
>> I can't think of any reason we'd need two roughly-equivalent printers in
>> the space. Long live the Butt Brother.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On May 2, 2015, at 15:13, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm reclaiming the HP printer I brought in a long while ago. It has
>> more or
>> > less been totally supplanted by the nice butt-connected black brother
>> printer
>> > from Rubin.
>> >
>> > No sense in keeping two printers around if nobody can figure out how to
>> use one
>> > of them.
>> >
>> > Unless there are objections, of course.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 18:30:31 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient
>> Yo, noisebridge.
>>
>> I still only have one person written down for this month's 5mof. If you'd
>> like
>> to give a 5 minute talk about anything, literally anything at all, hit me
>> up
>> with an email :)
>>
>> The Infamous Danny O'Brien has agreed to host this one as a clown. Of his
>> own
>> free will. I'm serious. He's not actually locked up in the basement and
>> being
>> tortured by watching the oncoming onslaught of totalitarianism brought
>> upon us
>> all by the state. It'll be fun. He's safe down there, I'm sure. Come,
>> bring
>> your friends <3
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 02:02:36 +0000
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss]  Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise
>> Hi noisebridge,
>>
>> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings
>> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with format
>> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>
>> Proposition:
>> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non
>> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my code
>> here:
>>
>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>
>> Before
>> member - 24h a day
>> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>
>> After
>> member - 24h a day
>> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>
>> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors could
>> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could give
>> help with databases.
>>
>> Question:
>> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is
>> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you
>> think it would be unsecured.
>>
>> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened today
>> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code of
>> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>> javascript. I can help on it.
>>
>> Last thoughts:
>> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related to
>> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>
>> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or
>> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>
>> Olivier
>>      'o                            o,
>>        'o                        o,
>>          'o                    o'
>>            'o                o'
>>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>             o'       ,o' o
>>           o'              'o
>>         o'                  'o
>>       o'                      'o
>>     o'                          'o
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> kjs:
>> > jarrod hicks:
>> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one perk -
>> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>> >>
>> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks now.
>> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already say
>> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with there
>> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>> >
>> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own this,
>> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,
>> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling entirely in
>> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires consensus
>> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed 'responsibleness' and
>> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I am
>> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I prefer
>> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress we
>> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for users
>> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a greater
>> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular hours.
>> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in the
>> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a strong
>> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the
>> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if they
>> >> are not.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of
>> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,
>> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for this
>> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to
>> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In the
>> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage, where
>> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed both
>> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and
>> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or going out
>> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we can
>> > find a middle way where all are content.
>> >
>> > -Kevin
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of people
>> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more critical
>> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has issued a key
>> to folks on the 86'ed list.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>> >>>> Noisebridge?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid, Rob
>> >>>> 2.0, and
>> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with giving
>> >>>> identified
>> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that the
>> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the
>> state
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify as.
>> My
>> >>>> entries
>> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net". You'd be
>> hard
>> >>>> pressed
>> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal"
>> name.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they deanonymize
>> >>>> themselves
>> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable for
>> >>>> shitting
>> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in the
>> >>>> woodshop
>> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in and
>> >>>> shits in
>> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that they
>> >>>> don't
>> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know who
>> did
>> >>>> it and
>> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the woodshop.
>> >>>> Don't let
>> >>>> her back in."?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a technical
>> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically validate
>> >>>> someone's
>> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it
>> >>>> completely
>> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to be a
>> >>>> member to
>> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm
>> pretty
>> >>>> much a
>> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to know
>> >>>> someone and
>> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having 24/7
>> >>>> access.
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>> To: Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 19:09:42 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise
>> On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi noisebridge,
>>>
>>> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings
>>> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with format
>>> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>>
>>> Proposition:
>>> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non
>>> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my code
>>> here:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>>
>>> Before
>>> member - 24h a day
>>> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>>
>>> After
>>> member - 24h a day
>>> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>>
>>
>> Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last item
>> has not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>> now until we have come to a conclusion.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors could
>>> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could give
>>> help with databases.
>>>
>>
>> I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think he
>> meant that
>> anybody can create a token.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Question:
>>> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is
>>> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you
>>> think it would be unsecured.
>>>
>>
>> Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in winter-time,
>> this might
>> be pretty late.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened today
>>> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code of
>>> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>> javascript. I can help on it.
>>
>>
>> Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is open'
>> indicator somewhere.
>> (also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Last thoughts:
>>> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related to
>>> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>>
>>
>> (At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>> Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>> makes it
>> harder to reason when the space is open.)
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or
>>> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>>
>>
>> I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a web
>> interface.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>      'o                            o,
>>>        'o                        o,
>>>          'o                    o'
>>>            'o                o'
>>>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>>             o'       ,o' o
>>>           o'              'o
>>>         o'                  'o
>>>       o'                      'o
>>>     o'                          'o
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> kjs:
>>> > jarrod hicks:
>>> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one perk -
>>> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>> >>
>>> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks now.
>>> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already say
>>> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with there
>>> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own
>>> this,
>>> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,
>>> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling entirely
>>> in
>>> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires consensus
>>> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed 'responsibleness'
>>> and
>>> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I am
>>> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I prefer
>>> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress we
>>> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for users
>>> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a greater
>>> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular hours.
>>> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in the
>>> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a strong
>>> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the
>>> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if they
>>> >> are not.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of
>>> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,
>>> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for this
>>> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to
>>> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In the
>>> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage, where
>>> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed
>>> both
>>> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and
>>> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or going
>>> out
>>> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we can
>>> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>> >
>>> > -Kevin
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>> people who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>> critical systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has
>>> issued a key to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid, Rob
>>> >>>> 2.0, and
>>> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with giving
>>> >>>> identified
>>> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that the
>>> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the
>>> state
>>> >>>> of
>>> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify as.
>>> My
>>> >>>> entries
>>> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net". You'd be
>>> hard
>>> >>>> pressed
>>> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal"
>>> name.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they deanonymize
>>> >>>> themselves
>>> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable for
>>> >>>> shitting
>>> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in the
>>> >>>> woodshop
>>> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in and
>>> >>>> shits in
>>> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that
>>> they
>>> >>>> don't
>>> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know who
>>> did
>>> >>>> it and
>>> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the woodshop.
>>> >>>> Don't let
>>> >>>> her back in."?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a technical
>>> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically validate
>>> >>>> someone's
>>> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it
>>> >>>> completely
>>> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to be a
>>> >>>> member to
>>> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm
>>> pretty
>>> >>>> much a
>>> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to know
>>> >>>> someone and
>>> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having 24/7
>>> >>>> access.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>> To: kjs <bfb at riseup.net>, NoiseBridge Discuss <
>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 22:09:27 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise
>> On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi noisebridge,
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings
>>> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with
>>> >format
>>> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>> >>
>>> >> Proposition:
>>> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non
>>> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my
>>> >code
>>> >> here:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>> >>
>>> >> Before
>>> >> member - 24h a day
>>> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>> >> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>> >>
>>> >> After
>>> >> member - 24h a day
>>> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last item
>>> >has
>>> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>>> >now until we have come to a conclusion.
>>> >
>>>
>>> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c
>>> consensus.
>>
>>
>> the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the
>> #security-wg channel on slack.
>>
>>
>>> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the
>>> lack of a forum brings docracy to halt.
>>
>>
>> the forum _is_ slack.
>>
>>
>>> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?
>>>
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors
>>> >could
>>> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could
>>> >give
>>> >> help with databases.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think he
>>> >meant
>>> >that
>>> >anybody can create a token.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Question:
>>> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is
>>> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you
>>> >> think it would be unsecured.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in winter-time,
>>> >this
>>> >might
>>> >be pretty late.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened
>>> >today
>>> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code
>>> >of
>>> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>> >> javascript. I can help on it.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is
>>> >open'
>>> >indicator somewhere.
>>> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Last thoughts:
>>> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related
>>> >to
>>> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>>> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>>> >makes
>>> >it
>>> >harder to reason when the space is open.)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or
>>> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a
>>> >web
>>> >interface.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Olivier
>>> >>      'o                            o,
>>> >>        'o                        o,
>>> >>          'o                    o'
>>> >>            'o                o'
>>> >>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>> >>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>> >>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>> >>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>> >> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>> >>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>> >>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>> >>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>> >>             o'       ,o' o
>>> >>           o'              'o
>>> >>         o'                  'o
>>> >>       o'                      'o
>>> >>     o'                          'o
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> kjs:
>>> >> > jarrod hicks:
>>> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one
>>> >perk -
>>> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks
>>> >now.
>>> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already
>>> >say
>>> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with
>>> >there
>>> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own
>>> >this,
>>> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,
>>> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling
>>> >entirely in
>>> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires
>>> >consensus
>>> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed
>>> >'responsibleness' and
>>> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I
>>> >am
>>> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I
>>> >prefer
>>> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress
>>> >we
>>> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for
>>> >users
>>> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a
>>> >greater
>>> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular
>>> >hours.
>>> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in
>>> >the
>>> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a
>>> >strong
>>> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the
>>> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if
>>> >they
>>> >> >> are not.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of
>>> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,
>>> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for
>>> >this
>>> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to
>>> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In
>>> >the
>>> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,
>>> >where
>>> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed
>>> >both
>>> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and
>>> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or
>>> >going out
>>> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we
>>> >can
>>> >> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -Kevin
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>> >people
>>> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>> >critical
>>> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has issued
>>> >a key
>>> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>> >> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>> >> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid,
>>> >Rob
>>> >> >>>> 2.0, and
>>> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with
>>> >giving
>>> >> >>>> identified
>>> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that
>>> >the
>>> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the
>>> >state
>>> >> >>>> of
>>> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify
>>> >as. My
>>> >> >>>> entries
>>> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net". You'd
>>> >be
>>> >> hard
>>> >> >>>> pressed
>>> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal"
>>> >name.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they
>>> >deanonymize
>>> >> >>>> themselves
>>> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable
>>> >for
>>> >> >>>> shitting
>>> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in
>>> >the
>>> >> >>>> woodshop
>>> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in
>>> >and
>>> >> >>>> shits in
>>> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that
>>> >they
>>> >> >>>> don't
>>> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know
>>> >who
>>> >> did
>>> >> >>>> it and
>>> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the
>>> >woodshop.
>>> >> >>>> Don't let
>>> >> >>>> her back in."?
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a
>>> >technical
>>> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically
>>> >validate
>>> >> >>>> someone's
>>> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it
>>> >> >>>> completely
>>> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to
>>> >be a
>>> >> >>>> member to
>>> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm
>>> >pretty
>>> >> >>>> much a
>>> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to
>>> >know
>>> >> >>>> someone and
>>> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having
>>> >24/7
>>> >> >>>> access.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >_______________________________________________
>>> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: kjs <bfb at riseup.net>
>> To: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>, NoiseBridge Discuss <
>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 23:39:58 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise
>>
>>
>> On May 2, 2015 10:09:27 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>> >On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>> >wrote:
>> >> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi noisebridge,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday
>> >meetings
>> >> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with
>> >> >format
>> >> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Proposition:
>> >> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's
>> >(non
>> >> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check
>> >my
>> >> >code
>> >> >> here:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Before
>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>> >> >> user - from 11 to 21h59
>> >> >>
>> >> >> After
>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>> >> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last
>> >item
>> >> >has
>> >> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>> >> >now until we have come to a conclusion.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c
>> >consensus.
>> >
>> >
>> >the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the
>> >#security-wg channel on slack.
>> >
>> >
>> >> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the
>> >lack
>> >> of a forum brings docracy to halt.
>> >
>> >
>> >the forum _is_ slack.
>> >
>>
>> Slack is a walled garden with an echo chamber effect. The self
>> reinforcing nature of the beast is very conducive to clique consenses.
>> Everyone is not on Slack, for good reason. Accounts are limited, access is
>> guarded, we do not host the server, thus do not have control of the data
>> transmitted. Of course,  Slack users' accounts were also once compromised.
>>
>> The alternatives are Tuesday meetings, a working group meeting and
>> discuss. This proposal was discussed at three meetings. My impression from
>> the meetings was largely positive. I was surprised by the many concerns
>> raised on this thread. Thank you all for the feedback.
>>
>> I suggest we convene the security working group, perhaps Monday night,
>> and empower the group to sort through the concerns raised and move forward
>> with some implementation.
>>
>> >
>> >> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors
>> >> >could
>> >> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could
>> >> >give
>> >> >> help with databases.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think
>> >he
>> >> >meant
>> >> >that
>> >> >anybody can create a token.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Question:
>> >> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user.
>> >Is
>> >> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if
>> >you
>> >> >> think it would be unsecured.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in
>> >winter-time,
>> >> >this
>> >> >might
>> >> >be pretty late.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened
>> >> >today
>> >> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the
>> >code
>> >> >of
>> >> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>> >> >> javascript. I can help on it.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is
>> >> >open'
>> >> >indicator somewhere.
>> >> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Last thoughts:
>> >> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid
>> >related
>> >> >to
>> >> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>> >> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>> >> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>> >> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>> >> >makes
>> >> >it
>> >> >harder to reason when the space is open.)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh
>> >or
>> >> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a
>> >> >web
>> >> >interface.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Olivier
>> >> >>      'o                            o,
>> >> >>        'o                        o,
>> >> >>          'o                    o'
>> >> >>            'o                o'
>> >> >>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>> >> >>              o''~    ~'o o'
>> >> >>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>> >> >>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>> >> >> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>> >> >>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>> >> >>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>> >> >>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>> >> >>             o'       ,o' o
>> >> >>           o'              'o
>> >> >>         o'                  'o
>> >> >>       o'                      'o
>> >> >>     o'                          'o
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> kjs:
>> >> >> > jarrod hicks:
>> >> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one
>> >> >perk -
>> >> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two
>> >perks
>> >> >now.
>> >> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I
>> >already
>> >> >say
>> >> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with
>> >> >there
>> >> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to
>> >own
>> >> >this,
>> >> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving
>> >tours,
>> >> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling
>> >> >entirely in
>> >> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires
>> >> >consensus
>> >> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed
>> >> >'responsibleness' and
>> >> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the
>> >day. I
>> >> >am
>> >> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I
>> >> >prefer
>> >> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the
>> >progress
>> >> >we
>> >> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for
>> >> >users
>> >> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a
>> >> >greater
>> >> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular
>> >> >hours.
>> >> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a
>> >> >strong
>> >> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of
>> >the
>> >> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even
>> >if
>> >> >they
>> >> >> >> are not.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number
>> >of
>> >> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our
>> >community,
>> >> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation
>> >for
>> >> >this
>> >> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door
>> >to
>> >> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension.
>> >In
>> >> >the
>> >> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,
>> >> >where
>> >> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I
>> >proposed
>> >> >both
>> >> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface
>> >and
>> >> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or
>> >> >going out
>> >> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that
>> >we
>> >> >can
>> >> >> > find a middle way where all are content.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > -Kevin
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>> >> >people
>> >> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>> >> >critical
>> >> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has
>> >issued
>> >> >a key
>> >> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>> >> >> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>> >> >> >>>> Noisebridge?
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey,
>> >Sid,
>> >> >Rob
>> >> >> >>>> 2.0, and
>> >> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with
>> >> >giving
>> >> >> >>>> identified
>> >> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement
>> >that
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as
>> >the
>> >> >state
>> >> >> >>>> of
>> >> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to
>> >identify
>> >> >as. My
>> >> >> >>>> entries
>> >> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net".
>> >You'd
>> >> >be
>> >> >> hard
>> >> >> >>>> pressed
>> >> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my
>> >"legal"
>> >> >name.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they
>> >> >deanonymize
>> >> >> >>>> themselves
>> >> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held
>> >accountable
>> >> >for
>> >> >> >>>> shitting
>> >> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting
>> >in
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >>>> woodshop
>> >> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes
>> >in
>> >> >and
>> >> >> >>>> shits in
>> >> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope
>> >that
>> >> >they
>> >> >> >>>> don't
>> >> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would
>> >know
>> >> >who
>> >> >> did
>> >> >> >>>> it and
>> >> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the
>> >> >woodshop.
>> >> >> >>>> Don't let
>> >> >> >>>> her back in."?
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a
>> >> >technical
>> >> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically
>> >> >validate
>> >> >> >>>> someone's
>> >> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters,
>> >it
>> >> >> >>>> completely
>> >> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need
>> >to
>> >> >be a
>> >> >> >>>> member to
>> >> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it.
>> >I'm
>> >> >pretty
>> >> >> >>>> much a
>> >> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to
>> >> >know
>> >> >> >>>> someone and
>> >> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having
>> >> >24/7
>> >> >> >>>> access.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> >>>
>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> >>
>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>> To: kjs <bfb at riseup.net>
>> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 23:51:06 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise
>> On 2 May 2015 at 23:39, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2015 10:09:27 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>> >On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Hi noisebridge,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday
>>> >meetings
>>> >> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with
>>> >> >format
>>> >> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Proposition:
>>> >> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's
>>> >(non
>>> >> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check
>>> >my
>>> >> >code
>>> >> >> here:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Before
>>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>> >> >> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> After
>>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>> >> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last
>>> >item
>>> >> >has
>>> >> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>>> >> >now until we have come to a conclusion.
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c
>>> >consensus.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the
>>> >#security-wg channel on slack.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the
>>> >lack
>>> >> of a forum brings docracy to halt.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >the forum _is_ slack.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Slack is a walled garden with an echo chamber effect. The self
>>> reinforcing nature of the beast is very conducive to clique consenses.
>>> Everyone is not on Slack, for good reason. Accounts are limited, access is
>>> guarded, we do not host the server, thus do not have control of the data
>>> transmitted. Of course,  Slack users' accounts were also once compromised.
>>>
>>
>> I agree, slack has its problems, mostly due to its non-open nature.
>> However, I would't say it is an echo chamber, just a way to quickly get
>> consensus because it is essentially chat.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The alternatives are Tuesday meetings, a working group meeting and
>>> discuss. This proposal was discussed at three meetings. My impression from
>>> the meetings was largely positive. I was surprised by the many concerns
>>> raised on this thread. Thank you all for the feedback.
>>>
>>
>> I have not been in the meetings, and the transcripts don't seem to convey
>> the details.
>> The proposal to open the fulltimeuserness is without trouble from people
>> on this thread.
>> But opening the gates for random people early in the morning has
>> obviously its problems and the discussion is not settled (and I can't
>> imagine that it was settled in the meeting).
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I suggest we convene the security working group, perhaps Monday night,
>>> and empower the group to sort through the concerns raised and move forward
>>> with some implementation.
>>>
>>
>> Sounds good.
>>
>> -h
>>
>>
>>> >
>>> >> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors
>>> >> >could
>>> >> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could
>>> >> >give
>>> >> >> help with databases.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think
>>> >he
>>> >> >meant
>>> >> >that
>>> >> >anybody can create a token.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Question:
>>> >> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user.
>>> >Is
>>> >> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if
>>> >you
>>> >> >> think it would be unsecured.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in
>>> >winter-time,
>>> >> >this
>>> >> >might
>>> >> >be pretty late.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened
>>> >> >today
>>> >> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the
>>> >code
>>> >> >of
>>> >> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>> >> >> javascript. I can help on it.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is
>>> >> >open'
>>> >> >indicator somewhere.
>>> >> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Last thoughts:
>>> >> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid
>>> >related
>>> >> >to
>>> >> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>> >> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>> >> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>>> >> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>>> >> >makes
>>> >> >it
>>> >> >harder to reason when the space is open.)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh
>>> >or
>>> >> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a
>>> >> >web
>>> >> >interface.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Olivier
>>> >> >>      'o                            o,
>>> >> >>        'o                        o,
>>> >> >>          'o                    o'
>>> >> >>            'o                o'
>>> >> >>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>> >> >>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>> >> >>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>> >> >>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>> >> >> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>> >> >>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>> >> >>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>> >> >>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>> >> >>             o'       ,o' o
>>> >> >>           o'              'o
>>> >> >>         o'                  'o
>>> >> >>       o'                      'o
>>> >> >>     o'                          'o
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> kjs:
>>> >> >> > jarrod hicks:
>>> >> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one
>>> >> >perk -
>>> >> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two
>>> >perks
>>> >> >now.
>>> >> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I
>>> >already
>>> >> >say
>>> >> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with
>>> >> >there
>>> >> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to
>>> >own
>>> >> >this,
>>> >> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving
>>> >tours,
>>> >> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling
>>> >> >entirely in
>>> >> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires
>>> >> >consensus
>>> >> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed
>>> >> >'responsibleness' and
>>> >> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the
>>> >day. I
>>> >> >am
>>> >> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I
>>> >> >prefer
>>> >> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the
>>> >progress
>>> >> >we
>>> >> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for
>>> >> >users
>>> >> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a
>>> >> >greater
>>> >> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular
>>> >> >hours.
>>> >> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a
>>> >> >strong
>>> >> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of
>>> >the
>>> >> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even
>>> >if
>>> >> >they
>>> >> >> >> are not.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number
>>> >of
>>> >> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our
>>> >community,
>>> >> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation
>>> >for
>>> >> >this
>>> >> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door
>>> >to
>>> >> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension.
>>> >In
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,
>>> >> >where
>>> >> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I
>>> >proposed
>>> >> >both
>>> >> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface
>>> >and
>>> >> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or
>>> >> >going out
>>> >> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that
>>> >we
>>> >> >can
>>> >> >> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > -Kevin
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>> >> >people
>>> >> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>> >> >critical
>>> >> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has
>>> >issued
>>> >> >a key
>>> >> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>> >> >> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>> >> >> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey,
>>> >Sid,
>>> >> >Rob
>>> >> >> >>>> 2.0, and
>>> >> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with
>>> >> >giving
>>> >> >> >>>> identified
>>> >> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement
>>> >that
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as
>>> >the
>>> >> >state
>>> >> >> >>>> of
>>> >> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to
>>> >identify
>>> >> >as. My
>>> >> >> >>>> entries
>>> >> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net".
>>> >You'd
>>> >> >be
>>> >> >> hard
>>> >> >> >>>> pressed
>>> >> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my
>>> >"legal"
>>> >> >name.
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they
>>> >> >deanonymize
>>> >> >> >>>> themselves
>>> >> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held
>>> >accountable
>>> >> >for
>>> >> >> >>>> shitting
>>> >> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting
>>> >in
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> >>>> woodshop
>>> >> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes
>>> >in
>>> >> >and
>>> >> >> >>>> shits in
>>> >> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope
>>> >that
>>> >> >they
>>> >> >> >>>> don't
>>> >> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would
>>> >know
>>> >> >who
>>> >> >> did
>>> >> >> >>>> it and
>>> >> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the
>>> >> >woodshop.
>>> >> >> >>>> Don't let
>>> >> >> >>>> her back in."?
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a
>>> >> >technical
>>> >> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically
>>> >> >validate
>>> >> >> >>>> someone's
>>> >> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters,
>>> >it
>>> >> >> >>>> completely
>>> >> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need
>>> >to
>>> >> >be a
>>> >> >> >>>> member to
>>> >> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it.
>>> >I'm
>>> >> >pretty
>>> >> >> >>>> much a
>>> >> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to
>>> >> >know
>>> >> >> >>>> someone and
>>> >> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having
>>> >> >24/7
>>> >> >> >>>> access.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> >
>>> >> >_______________________________________________
>>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Josh Juran <jjuran at gmail.com>
>> To: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 00:18:30 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient
>> On May 2, 2015, at 6:30 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I still only have one person written down for this month's 5mof. If
>> you'd like
>> > to give a 5 minute talk about anything, literally anything at all, hit
>> me up
>> > with an email :)
>>
>> Where and when is it?  Are there limits on how long talks are allowed to
>> run?  Guidelines on topics?  Will there be recording and/or livestreaming
>> of talks?
>>
>> > The Infamous Danny O'Brien has agreed to host this one as a clown. Of
>> his own
>> > free will. I'm serious.
>>
>> I suppose an individual is, in an anarchic sense, free to disregard zir
>> contractual obligations.  In any case, Danny auctioned off this perk at
>> 5MoF in February in exchange for a donation to Noisebridge.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:42:54 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Fedora on the 3d printer
> Hi, nerysbridge.
>
> My last attempt at installing Fedora to the 3d printer was aborted early on
> when the whole system was totally wiped in favor of ubuntu, and left to
> bitrot.
>
> I'm dual booting fedora and the current ubuntu system on there, and will
> maintain the fedora one for a while, or at the very least make sure its
> hard
> to fuck with it.
>
> Can't even count the number of times someone's ran into problems with the
> current setup that has 38572 configurations when someone wants to tweak it
> and
> ends up ruining the system for everyone who doesn't know to download a
> fresh
> copy of replicatorg.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Romy at snowyla" <romy at snowyla.com>
> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:40:38 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Always be creating!!
> Whoever put the katsuhiro book here kicks ass!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Romy at snowyla" <romy at snowyla.com>
> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:54:01 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] More destress drawings
> Ya! Thanks . I stopped by I'm very stressed but the manga is helping me
> from going crazy
>
> Keep creating Noisebridge !!
>
> Stopping by @Noisebridge & enjoying the manga .. Katsuhiro saw the future
> but drew with pen and ink #future #onesketchaday #hackerspace
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Patrick O'Doherty" <p at trickod.com>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 20:16:31 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] The windows are clean! It's excellent
> I'm looking out on a great San Francsico sunset through the now spotless
> windows at the space. It's really amazing.
>
> Thanks so much to Louis and whoever else helped out. The space is
> looking really great this weekend with this and the cleaning ahead of
> Maker Faire. Numerous visitors remarked on how great the place was
> looking today while they touring the space
>
> p
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Patrick O'Doherty" <p at trickod.com>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 22:19:48 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Accepting CC donations @ Noisebridge
> Hey folks,
>
> Noisebridge has a Square account which we can use to take in-person
> credit card donations. There was some confusion as to where the credit
> card readers were in the space, so I've left one in the donation bin by
> the door. It'd be great if it could live there "permanently".
>
> If you'd like to be able to accept credit card donations on behalf of
> Noisebridge reply to me off list and we'll set it up! It's very simple
> to use, you just need your phone and a reader.
>
> cheers,
>
> p
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rubin Abdi <rubin at starset.net>
> To: noisebridge-discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 00:37:28 -0700
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] CCCamp 2015, are you going? Camping with
> Noiseburg?
> Noisebridge would like to have a little village at CCCamp this year. If
> you're interested about going and want to camp with Noiseburg, please hit
> up this wiki page, throw your name down, and join the Congress mailing
> list. I'll be calling for a meeting sometime in the next week so we can
> pound out some details on what we want to do with our village.
>
> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Camp
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/congress
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Rubin
> rubin at starset.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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