[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91, Issue 19

Bacon Zombie baconzombie at gmail.com
Tue May 19 11:58:56 UTC 2015


You need to use the link at the bottom of the email.

https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
 On 18 May 2015 18:31, "Barry Fruitman" <barry at fruitman.me> wrote:

> Remove
> On May 18, 2015 5:00 AM, <
> noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:
>
>> Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to
>>         noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         noisebridge-discuss-owner at lists.noisebridge.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91,   Issue 4 (Mohamed Shakir)
>>    2. Fedora on the 3d printer (Torrie Fischer)
>>    3. Always be creating!! (Romy at snowyla)
>>    4. More destress drawings (Romy at snowyla)
>>    5. The windows are clean! It's excellent (Patrick O'Doherty)
>>    6. Accepting CC donations @ Noisebridge (Patrick O'Doherty)
>>    7. CCCamp 2015,      are you going? Camping with Noiseburg? (Rubin
>> Abdi)
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Mohamed Shakir <mo.shakirma at gmail.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:54:46 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91,
>> Issue 4
>> is anyone planing to come today before noon? the doors are locked.
>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 05:00 <
>> noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to
>>>         noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>         noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>         noisebridge-discuss-owner at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Javascript, Spanish Workshop,     Network with Mexico City
>>>       hackerspace (Eric Hulburd)
>>>    2. Re: SF Linux Fest (Ryan Rix)
>>>    3. HP Printer (Torrie Fischer)
>>>    4. Re: HP Printer (Teapot)
>>>    5. 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient (Torrie Fischer)
>>>    6.  Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Olivier Laleu)
>>>    7. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)
>>>    8. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)
>>>    9. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (kjs)
>>>   10. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)
>>>   11. Re: 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient (Josh Juran)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Eric Hulburd <ehulburd at gmail.com>
>>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:09:30 -0700
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Javascript, Spanish Workshop, Network
>>> with Mexico City hackerspace
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm visiting San Francisco this month and I'm working out of Noisebridge
>>> (originally from SF).
>>>
>>> I've been living in Mexico City and have been doing some workshops at a
>>> hackerspace down there - Rancho Electrico
>>> <http://ranchoelectronico.org/>.
>>>
>>> It would be rad to create some connections between the spaces. If anyone
>>> is interested in:
>>>
>>>    - helping me with the javascript workshops by leading the workshops
>>>    online w/ google hangout, skype or whatever you prefer (there's definitely
>>>    a desire to learn to code, availability of skilled programmers willing to
>>>    spend time teaching is a limitation),
>>>    - want to learn spanish and would be interested in organizing a
>>>    spanish language workshop,
>>>    - are interested in what role internet and tech freedom can play in
>>>    fighting corruption on both sides of the border
>>>
>>> contact me.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eric Hulburd
>>>
>>> Oroeco.com <http://www.oroeco.com/>
>>> Twitter: @oyecalifornia <https://twitter.com/oyecalifornia>
>>> Ciudad de México
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Ryan Rix <ryan at whatthefuck.computer>
>>> To: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:28:52 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] SF Linux Fest
>>> Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net> writes:
>>> > Hei, noisebridge :3
>>> >
>>> > I'm up here at Linux Fest Northwest where I've had my passion for free
>>> > software reinvigorated and renewed.
>>> >
>>> > Its inspired me to bring about something like LFNW or even LibrePlanet
>>> in SF
>>> > by starting it at Noisebridge. The problem though is that I've been,
>>> > unfortunately, completely burnt out of free software over the last few
>>> years.
>>> > So I'm a bit out of the loop as to what local activities might already
>>> be
>>> > happening.
>>> >
>>> > Anyone got pointers of where I should look for an existing community
>>> in the
>>> > bay area outside of Noisebridge?
>>>
>>> We're bootstrapping an Emacs Conference in SF right now, would be great
>>> to pool resources on these two things, given their overlap.
>>>
>>> http://emacsconf.github.io/emacsconf2015/
>>>
>>> r
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 15:13:25 -0700
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] HP Printer
>>> I'm reclaiming the HP printer I brought in a long while ago. It has more
>>> or
>>> less been totally supplanted by the nice butt-connected black brother
>>> printer
>>> from Rubin.
>>>
>>> No sense in keeping two printers around if nobody can figure out how to
>>> use one
>>> of them.
>>>
>>> Unless there are objections, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Teapot <hi at asmallteapot.com>
>>> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 16:25:05 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] HP Printer
>>> I can't think of any reason we'd need two roughly-equivalent printers in
>>> the space. Long live the Butt Brother.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On May 2, 2015, at 15:13, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I'm reclaiming the HP printer I brought in a long while ago. It has
>>> more or
>>> > less been totally supplanted by the nice butt-connected black brother
>>> printer
>>> > from Rubin.
>>> >
>>> > No sense in keeping two printers around if nobody can figure out how
>>> to use one
>>> > of them.
>>> >
>>> > Unless there are objections, of course.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 18:30:31 -0700
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient
>>> Yo, noisebridge.
>>>
>>> I still only have one person written down for this month's 5mof. If
>>> you'd like
>>> to give a 5 minute talk about anything, literally anything at all, hit
>>> me up
>>> with an email :)
>>>
>>> The Infamous Danny O'Brien has agreed to host this one as a clown. Of
>>> his own
>>> free will. I'm serious. He's not actually locked up in the basement and
>>> being
>>> tortured by watching the oncoming onslaught of totalitarianism brought
>>> upon us
>>> all by the state. It'll be fun. He's safe down there, I'm sure. Come,
>>> bring
>>> your friends <3
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 02:02:36 +0000
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss]  Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise
>>> Hi noisebridge,
>>>
>>> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings
>>> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with format
>>> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>>
>>> Proposition:
>>> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non
>>> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my code
>>> here:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>>
>>> Before
>>> member - 24h a day
>>> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>>
>>> After
>>> member - 24h a day
>>> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>>
>>> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors could
>>> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could give
>>> help with databases.
>>>
>>> Question:
>>> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is
>>> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you
>>> think it would be unsecured.
>>>
>>> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened today
>>> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code of
>>> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>> javascript. I can help on it.
>>>
>>> Last thoughts:
>>> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related to
>>> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>>
>>> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or
>>> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>      'o                            o,
>>>        'o                        o,
>>>          'o                    o'
>>>            'o                o'
>>>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>>             o'       ,o' o
>>>           o'              'o
>>>         o'                  'o
>>>       o'                      'o
>>>     o'                          'o
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> kjs:
>>> > jarrod hicks:
>>> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one perk -
>>> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>> >>
>>> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks now.
>>> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already say
>>> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with there
>>> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own
>>> this,
>>> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,
>>> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling entirely
>>> in
>>> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires consensus
>>> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed 'responsibleness'
>>> and
>>> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I am
>>> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I prefer
>>> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress we
>>> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for users
>>> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a greater
>>> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular hours.
>>> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in the
>>> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a strong
>>> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the
>>> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if they
>>> >> are not.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of
>>> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,
>>> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for this
>>> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to
>>> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In the
>>> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage, where
>>> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed
>>> both
>>> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and
>>> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or going
>>> out
>>> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we can
>>> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>> >
>>> > -Kevin
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>> people who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>> critical systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has
>>> issued a key to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid, Rob
>>> >>>> 2.0, and
>>> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with giving
>>> >>>> identified
>>> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that the
>>> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the
>>> state
>>> >>>> of
>>> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify as.
>>> My
>>> >>>> entries
>>> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net". You'd be
>>> hard
>>> >>>> pressed
>>> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal"
>>> name.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they deanonymize
>>> >>>> themselves
>>> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable for
>>> >>>> shitting
>>> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in the
>>> >>>> woodshop
>>> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in and
>>> >>>> shits in
>>> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that
>>> they
>>> >>>> don't
>>> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know who
>>> did
>>> >>>> it and
>>> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the woodshop.
>>> >>>> Don't let
>>> >>>> her back in."?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a technical
>>> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically validate
>>> >>>> someone's
>>> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it
>>> >>>> completely
>>> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to be a
>>> >>>> member to
>>> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm
>>> pretty
>>> >>>> much a
>>> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to know
>>> >>>> someone and
>>> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having 24/7
>>> >>>> access.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>>> To: Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 19:09:42 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at
>>> sunrise
>>> On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi noisebridge,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings
>>>> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with format
>>>> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>>>
>>>> Proposition:
>>>> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non
>>>> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my code
>>>> here:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>>>
>>>> Before
>>>> member - 24h a day
>>>> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>>> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>>>
>>>> After
>>>> member - 24h a day
>>>> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>>> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last item
>>> has not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>>> now until we have come to a conclusion.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors could
>>>> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could give
>>>> help with databases.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think he
>>> meant that
>>> anybody can create a token.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Question:
>>>> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is
>>>> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you
>>>> think it would be unsecured.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in winter-time,
>>> this might
>>> be pretty late.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened today
>>>> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code of
>>>> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>>> javascript. I can help on it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is
>>> open'
>>> indicator somewhere.
>>> (also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Last thoughts:
>>>> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related to
>>>> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>>> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>>> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>>>
>>>
>>> (At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>>> Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>>> makes it
>>> harder to reason when the space is open.)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or
>>>> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a web
>>> interface.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Olivier
>>>>      'o                            o,
>>>>        'o                        o,
>>>>          'o                    o'
>>>>            'o                o'
>>>>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>>>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>>>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>>>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>>> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>>>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>>>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>>>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>>>             o'       ,o' o
>>>>           o'              'o
>>>>         o'                  'o
>>>>       o'                      'o
>>>>     o'                          'o
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> kjs:
>>>> > jarrod hicks:
>>>> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one perk
>>>> -
>>>> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks
>>>> now.
>>>> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already
>>>> say
>>>> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with there
>>>> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own
>>>> this,
>>>> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,
>>>> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling entirely
>>>> in
>>>> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires
>>>> consensus
>>>> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed 'responsibleness'
>>>> and
>>>> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I am
>>>> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I
>>>> prefer
>>>> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress we
>>>> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for users
>>>> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a greater
>>>> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular hours.
>>>> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in the
>>>> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a strong
>>>> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the
>>>> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if they
>>>> >> are not.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of
>>>> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,
>>>> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for
>>>> this
>>>> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to
>>>> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In the
>>>> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage, where
>>>> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed
>>>> both
>>>> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and
>>>> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or going
>>>> out
>>>> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we can
>>>> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>>> >
>>>> > -Kevin
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>>> people who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>>> critical systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has
>>>> issued a key to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>>> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>>> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>>> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid, Rob
>>>> >>>> 2.0, and
>>>> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with giving
>>>> >>>> identified
>>>> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that the
>>>> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the
>>>> state
>>>> >>>> of
>>>> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify
>>>> as. My
>>>> >>>> entries
>>>> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net". You'd be
>>>> hard
>>>> >>>> pressed
>>>> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal"
>>>> name.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they deanonymize
>>>> >>>> themselves
>>>> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable
>>>> for
>>>> >>>> shitting
>>>> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in
>>>> the
>>>> >>>> woodshop
>>>> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in and
>>>> >>>> shits in
>>>> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that
>>>> they
>>>> >>>> don't
>>>> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know
>>>> who did
>>>> >>>> it and
>>>> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the
>>>> woodshop.
>>>> >>>> Don't let
>>>> >>>> her back in."?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a technical
>>>> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically validate
>>>> >>>> someone's
>>>> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it
>>>> >>>> completely
>>>> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to be a
>>>> >>>> member to
>>>> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm
>>>> pretty
>>>> >>>> much a
>>>> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to know
>>>> >>>> someone and
>>>> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having 24/7
>>>> >>>> access.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>>> To: kjs <bfb at riseup.net>, NoiseBridge Discuss <
>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 22:09:27 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at
>>> sunrise
>>> On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>>> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi noisebridge,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings
>>>> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with
>>>> >format
>>>> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Proposition:
>>>> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non
>>>> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my
>>>> >code
>>>> >> here:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Before
>>>> >> member - 24h a day
>>>> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>>> >> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>>> >>
>>>> >> After
>>>> >> member - 24h a day
>>>> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>>> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last item
>>>> >has
>>>> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>>>> >now until we have come to a conclusion.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c
>>>> consensus.
>>>
>>>
>>> the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the
>>> #security-wg channel on slack.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the
>>>> lack of a forum brings docracy to halt.
>>>
>>>
>>> the forum _is_ slack.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors
>>>> >could
>>>> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could
>>>> >give
>>>> >> help with databases.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think he
>>>> >meant
>>>> >that
>>>> >anybody can create a token.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question:
>>>> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is
>>>> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you
>>>> >> think it would be unsecured.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in winter-time,
>>>> >this
>>>> >might
>>>> >be pretty late.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened
>>>> >today
>>>> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code
>>>> >of
>>>> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>>> >> javascript. I can help on it.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is
>>>> >open'
>>>> >indicator somewhere.
>>>> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Last thoughts:
>>>> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related
>>>> >to
>>>> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>>> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>>> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>>>> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>>>> >makes
>>>> >it
>>>> >harder to reason when the space is open.)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or
>>>> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a
>>>> >web
>>>> >interface.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Olivier
>>>> >>      'o                            o,
>>>> >>        'o                        o,
>>>> >>          'o                    o'
>>>> >>            'o                o'
>>>> >>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>>> >>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>>> >>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>>> >>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>>> >> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>>> >>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>>> >>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>>> >>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>>> >>             o'       ,o' o
>>>> >>           o'              'o
>>>> >>         o'                  'o
>>>> >>       o'                      'o
>>>> >>     o'                          'o
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> kjs:
>>>> >> > jarrod hicks:
>>>> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one
>>>> >perk -
>>>> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks
>>>> >now.
>>>> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already
>>>> >say
>>>> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with
>>>> >there
>>>> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own
>>>> >this,
>>>> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,
>>>> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling
>>>> >entirely in
>>>> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires
>>>> >consensus
>>>> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed
>>>> >'responsibleness' and
>>>> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I
>>>> >am
>>>> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I
>>>> >prefer
>>>> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress
>>>> >we
>>>> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for
>>>> >users
>>>> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a
>>>> >greater
>>>> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular
>>>> >hours.
>>>> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in
>>>> >the
>>>> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a
>>>> >strong
>>>> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the
>>>> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if
>>>> >they
>>>> >> >> are not.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of
>>>> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,
>>>> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for
>>>> >this
>>>> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to
>>>> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In
>>>> >the
>>>> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,
>>>> >where
>>>> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed
>>>> >both
>>>> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and
>>>> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or
>>>> >going out
>>>> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we
>>>> >can
>>>> >> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > -Kevin
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>>> >people
>>>> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>>> >critical
>>>> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has issued
>>>> >a key
>>>> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>>> >> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>>> >> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid,
>>>> >Rob
>>>> >> >>>> 2.0, and
>>>> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with
>>>> >giving
>>>> >> >>>> identified
>>>> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that
>>>> >the
>>>> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the
>>>> >state
>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify
>>>> >as. My
>>>> >> >>>> entries
>>>> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net". You'd
>>>> >be
>>>> >> hard
>>>> >> >>>> pressed
>>>> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal"
>>>> >name.
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they
>>>> >deanonymize
>>>> >> >>>> themselves
>>>> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable
>>>> >for
>>>> >> >>>> shitting
>>>> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in
>>>> >the
>>>> >> >>>> woodshop
>>>> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in
>>>> >and
>>>> >> >>>> shits in
>>>> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that
>>>> >they
>>>> >> >>>> don't
>>>> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know
>>>> >who
>>>> >> did
>>>> >> >>>> it and
>>>> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the
>>>> >woodshop.
>>>> >> >>>> Don't let
>>>> >> >>>> her back in."?
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a
>>>> >technical
>>>> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically
>>>> >validate
>>>> >> >>>> someone's
>>>> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it
>>>> >> >>>> completely
>>>> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to
>>>> >be a
>>>> >> >>>> member to
>>>> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm
>>>> >pretty
>>>> >> >>>> much a
>>>> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to
>>>> >know
>>>> >> >>>> someone and
>>>> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having
>>>> >24/7
>>>> >> >>>> access.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: kjs <bfb at riseup.net>
>>> To: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>, NoiseBridge Discuss <
>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 23:39:58 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at
>>> sunrise
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2015 10:09:27 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>> >On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Hi noisebridge,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday
>>> >meetings
>>> >> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with
>>> >> >format
>>> >> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Proposition:
>>> >> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's
>>> >(non
>>> >> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check
>>> >my
>>> >> >code
>>> >> >> here:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Before
>>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>> >> >> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> After
>>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>> >> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last
>>> >item
>>> >> >has
>>> >> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>>> >> >now until we have come to a conclusion.
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c
>>> >consensus.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the
>>> >#security-wg channel on slack.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the
>>> >lack
>>> >> of a forum brings docracy to halt.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >the forum _is_ slack.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Slack is a walled garden with an echo chamber effect. The self
>>> reinforcing nature of the beast is very conducive to clique consenses.
>>> Everyone is not on Slack, for good reason. Accounts are limited, access is
>>> guarded, we do not host the server, thus do not have control of the data
>>> transmitted. Of course,  Slack users' accounts were also once compromised.
>>>
>>> The alternatives are Tuesday meetings, a working group meeting and
>>> discuss. This proposal was discussed at three meetings. My impression from
>>> the meetings was largely positive. I was surprised by the many concerns
>>> raised on this thread. Thank you all for the feedback.
>>>
>>> I suggest we convene the security working group, perhaps Monday night,
>>> and empower the group to sort through the concerns raised and move forward
>>> with some implementation.
>>>
>>> >
>>> >> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors
>>> >> >could
>>> >> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could
>>> >> >give
>>> >> >> help with databases.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think
>>> >he
>>> >> >meant
>>> >> >that
>>> >> >anybody can create a token.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Question:
>>> >> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user.
>>> >Is
>>> >> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if
>>> >you
>>> >> >> think it would be unsecured.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in
>>> >winter-time,
>>> >> >this
>>> >> >might
>>> >> >be pretty late.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened
>>> >> >today
>>> >> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the
>>> >code
>>> >> >of
>>> >> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>> >> >> javascript. I can help on it.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is
>>> >> >open'
>>> >> >indicator somewhere.
>>> >> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Last thoughts:
>>> >> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid
>>> >related
>>> >> >to
>>> >> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>> >> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>> >> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>>> >> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>>> >> >makes
>>> >> >it
>>> >> >harder to reason when the space is open.)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh
>>> >or
>>> >> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a
>>> >> >web
>>> >> >interface.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Olivier
>>> >> >>      'o                            o,
>>> >> >>        'o                        o,
>>> >> >>          'o                    o'
>>> >> >>            'o                o'
>>> >> >>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>> >> >>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>> >> >>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>> >> >>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>> >> >> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>> >> >>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>> >> >>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>> >> >>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>> >> >>             o'       ,o' o
>>> >> >>           o'              'o
>>> >> >>         o'                  'o
>>> >> >>       o'                      'o
>>> >> >>     o'                          'o
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> kjs:
>>> >> >> > jarrod hicks:
>>> >> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one
>>> >> >perk -
>>> >> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two
>>> >perks
>>> >> >now.
>>> >> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I
>>> >already
>>> >> >say
>>> >> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with
>>> >> >there
>>> >> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to
>>> >own
>>> >> >this,
>>> >> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving
>>> >tours,
>>> >> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling
>>> >> >entirely in
>>> >> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires
>>> >> >consensus
>>> >> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed
>>> >> >'responsibleness' and
>>> >> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the
>>> >day. I
>>> >> >am
>>> >> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I
>>> >> >prefer
>>> >> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the
>>> >progress
>>> >> >we
>>> >> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for
>>> >> >users
>>> >> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a
>>> >> >greater
>>> >> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular
>>> >> >hours.
>>> >> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a
>>> >> >strong
>>> >> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of
>>> >the
>>> >> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even
>>> >if
>>> >> >they
>>> >> >> >> are not.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number
>>> >of
>>> >> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our
>>> >community,
>>> >> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation
>>> >for
>>> >> >this
>>> >> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door
>>> >to
>>> >> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension.
>>> >In
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,
>>> >> >where
>>> >> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I
>>> >proposed
>>> >> >both
>>> >> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface
>>> >and
>>> >> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or
>>> >> >going out
>>> >> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that
>>> >we
>>> >> >can
>>> >> >> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > -Kevin
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>> >> >people
>>> >> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>> >> >critical
>>> >> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has
>>> >issued
>>> >> >a key
>>> >> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>> >> >> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>> >> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>> >> >> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey,
>>> >Sid,
>>> >> >Rob
>>> >> >> >>>> 2.0, and
>>> >> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with
>>> >> >giving
>>> >> >> >>>> identified
>>> >> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement
>>> >that
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as
>>> >the
>>> >> >state
>>> >> >> >>>> of
>>> >> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to
>>> >identify
>>> >> >as. My
>>> >> >> >>>> entries
>>> >> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net".
>>> >You'd
>>> >> >be
>>> >> >> hard
>>> >> >> >>>> pressed
>>> >> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my
>>> >"legal"
>>> >> >name.
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they
>>> >> >deanonymize
>>> >> >> >>>> themselves
>>> >> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held
>>> >accountable
>>> >> >for
>>> >> >> >>>> shitting
>>> >> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting
>>> >in
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >> >>>> woodshop
>>> >> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes
>>> >in
>>> >> >and
>>> >> >> >>>> shits in
>>> >> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope
>>> >that
>>> >> >they
>>> >> >> >>>> don't
>>> >> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would
>>> >know
>>> >> >who
>>> >> >> did
>>> >> >> >>>> it and
>>> >> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the
>>> >> >woodshop.
>>> >> >> >>>> Don't let
>>> >> >> >>>> her back in."?
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a
>>> >> >technical
>>> >> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically
>>> >> >validate
>>> >> >> >>>> someone's
>>> >> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters,
>>> >it
>>> >> >> >>>> completely
>>> >> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need
>>> >to
>>> >> >be a
>>> >> >> >>>> member to
>>> >> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>> >> >> >>>>
>>> >> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it.
>>> >I'm
>>> >> >pretty
>>> >> >> >>>> much a
>>> >> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to
>>> >> >know
>>> >> >> >>>> someone and
>>> >> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having
>>> >> >24/7
>>> >> >> >>>> access.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> >
>>> >> >_______________________________________________
>>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>>> To: kjs <bfb at riseup.net>
>>> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 23:51:06 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at
>>> sunrise
>>> On 2 May 2015 at 23:39, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2015 10:09:27 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>>> >On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>
>>>> >wrote:
>>>> >> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <olivier.laleu at gmail.com>
>>>> >wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> Hi noisebridge,
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday
>>>> >meetings
>>>> >> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with
>>>> >> >format
>>>> >> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Proposition:
>>>> >> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's
>>>> >(non
>>>> >> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check
>>>> >my
>>>> >> >code
>>>> >> >> here:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Before
>>>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>>>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59
>>>> >> >> user - from 11 to 21h59
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> After
>>>> >> >> member - 24h a day
>>>> >> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59
>>>> >> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last
>>>> >item
>>>> >> >has
>>>> >> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for
>>>> >> >now until we have come to a conclusion.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c
>>>> >consensus.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the
>>>> >#security-wg channel on slack.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the
>>>> >lack
>>>> >> of a forum brings docracy to halt.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >the forum _is_ slack.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Slack is a walled garden with an echo chamber effect. The self
>>>> reinforcing nature of the beast is very conducive to clique consenses.
>>>> Everyone is not on Slack, for good reason. Accounts are limited, access is
>>>> guarded, we do not host the server, thus do not have control of the data
>>>> transmitted. Of course,  Slack users' accounts were also once compromised.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree, slack has its problems, mostly due to its non-open nature.
>>> However, I would't say it is an echo chamber, just a way to quickly get
>>> consensus because it is essentially chat.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The alternatives are Tuesday meetings, a working group meeting and
>>>> discuss. This proposal was discussed at three meetings. My impression from
>>>> the meetings was largely positive. I was surprised by the many concerns
>>>> raised on this thread. Thank you all for the feedback.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have not been in the meetings, and the transcripts don't seem to
>>> convey the details.
>>> The proposal to open the fulltimeuserness is without trouble from people
>>> on this thread.
>>> But opening the gates for random people early in the morning has
>>> obviously its problems and the discussion is not settled (and I can't
>>> imagine that it was settled in the meeting).
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suggest we convene the security working group, perhaps Monday night,
>>>> and empower the group to sort through the concerns raised and move forward
>>>> with some implementation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds good.
>>>
>>> -h
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors
>>>> >> >could
>>>> >> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could
>>>> >> >give
>>>> >> >> help with databases.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think
>>>> >he
>>>> >> >meant
>>>> >> >that
>>>> >> >anybody can create a token.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Question:
>>>> >> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user.
>>>> >Is
>>>> >> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if
>>>> >you
>>>> >> >> think it would be unsecured.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in
>>>> >winter-time,
>>>> >> >this
>>>> >> >might
>>>> >> >be pretty late.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened
>>>> >> >today
>>>> >> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the
>>>> >code
>>>> >> >of
>>>> >> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via
>>>> >> >> javascript. I can help on it.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is
>>>> >> >open'
>>>> >> >indicator somewhere.
>>>> >> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Last thoughts:
>>>> >> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid
>>>> >related
>>>> >> >to
>>>> >> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!
>>>> >> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary
>>>> >> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.
>>>> >> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just
>>>> >> >makes
>>>> >> >it
>>>> >> >harder to reason when the space is open.)
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh
>>>> >or
>>>> >> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a
>>>> >> >web
>>>> >> >interface.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Olivier
>>>> >> >>      'o                            o,
>>>> >> >>        'o                        o,
>>>> >> >>          'o                    o'
>>>> >> >>            'o                o'
>>>> >> >>              'o ..ooo,     o'
>>>> >> >>              o''~    ~'o o'
>>>> >> >>            o'  ,o'^'o-  ''o
>>>> >> >>           o' 'o'      'o-  o
>>>> >> >> o-o-o-o-o-o  ;o   o'    'o -o-o-o-o-o-o
>>>> >> >>           :o, 'o-  ,o  o' ,o
>>>> >> >>            'o,  '**  ,d' ,o
>>>> >> >>              'o,..,,d' ,o'
>>>> >> >>             o'       ,o' o
>>>> >> >>           o'              'o
>>>> >> >>         o'                  'o
>>>> >> >>       o'                      'o
>>>> >> >>     o'                          'o
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> kjs:
>>>> >> >> > jarrod hicks:
>>>> >> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one
>>>> >> >perk -
>>>> >> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two
>>>> >perks
>>>> >> >now.
>>>> >> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I
>>>> >already
>>>> >> >say
>>>> >> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with
>>>> >> >there
>>>> >> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to
>>>> >own
>>>> >> >this,
>>>> >> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving
>>>> >tours,
>>>> >> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling
>>>> >> >entirely in
>>>> >> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires
>>>> >> >consensus
>>>> >> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed
>>>> >> >'responsibleness' and
>>>> >> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the
>>>> >day. I
>>>> >> >am
>>>> >> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I
>>>> >> >prefer
>>>> >> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the
>>>> >progress
>>>> >> >we
>>>> >> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for
>>>> >> >users
>>>> >> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a
>>>> >> >greater
>>>> >> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular
>>>> >> >hours.
>>>> >> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in
>>>> >> >the
>>>> >> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a
>>>> >> >strong
>>>> >> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of
>>>> >the
>>>> >> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even
>>>> >if
>>>> >> >they
>>>> >> >> >> are not.
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number
>>>> >of
>>>> >> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our
>>>> >community,
>>>> >> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation
>>>> >for
>>>> >> >this
>>>> >> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door
>>>> >to
>>>> >> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension.
>>>> >In
>>>> >> >the
>>>> >> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,
>>>> >> >where
>>>> >> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I
>>>> >proposed
>>>> >> >both
>>>> >> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface
>>>> >and
>>>> >> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or
>>>> >> >going out
>>>> >> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that
>>>> >we
>>>> >> >can
>>>> >> >> > find a middle way where all are content.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > -Kevin
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of
>>>> >> >people
>>>> >> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more
>>>> >> >critical
>>>> >> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has
>>>> >issued
>>>> >> >a key
>>>> >> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <
>>>> >> >> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:
>>>> >> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to
>>>> >> >> >>>> Noisebridge?
>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.
>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey,
>>>> >Sid,
>>>> >> >Rob
>>>> >> >> >>>> 2.0, and
>>>> >> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with
>>>> >> >giving
>>>> >> >> >>>> identified
>>>> >> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement
>>>> >that
>>>> >> >the
>>>> >> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as
>>>> >the
>>>> >> >state
>>>> >> >> >>>> of
>>>> >> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to
>>>> >identify
>>>> >> >as. My
>>>> >> >> >>>> entries
>>>> >> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "tdfischer at hackerbots.net".
>>>> >You'd
>>>> >> >be
>>>> >> >> hard
>>>> >> >> >>>> pressed
>>>> >> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my
>>>> >"legal"
>>>> >> >name.
>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they
>>>> >> >deanonymize
>>>> >> >> >>>> themselves
>>>> >> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held
>>>> >accountable
>>>> >> >for
>>>> >> >> >>>> shitting
>>>> >> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting
>>>> >in
>>>> >> >the
>>>> >> >> >>>> woodshop
>>>> >> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes
>>>> >in
>>>> >> >and
>>>> >> >> >>>> shits in
>>>> >> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope
>>>> >that
>>>> >> >they
>>>> >> >> >>>> don't
>>>> >> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would
>>>> >know
>>>> >> >who
>>>> >> >> did
>>>> >> >> >>>> it and
>>>> >> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the
>>>> >> >woodshop.
>>>> >> >> >>>> Don't let
>>>> >> >> >>>> her back in."?
>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a
>>>> >> >technical
>>>> >> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically
>>>> >> >validate
>>>> >> >> >>>> someone's
>>>> >> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters,
>>>> >it
>>>> >> >> >>>> completely
>>>> >> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need
>>>> >to
>>>> >> >be a
>>>> >> >> >>>> member to
>>>> >> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.
>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it.
>>>> >I'm
>>>> >> >pretty
>>>> >> >> >>>> much a
>>>> >> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to
>>>> >> >know
>>>> >> >> >>>> someone and
>>>> >> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having
>>>> >> >24/7
>>>> >> >> >>>> access.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> >Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> >https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Josh Juran <jjuran at gmail.com>
>>> To: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 00:18:30 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient
>>> On May 2, 2015, at 6:30 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I still only have one person written down for this month's 5mof. If
>>> you'd like
>>> > to give a 5 minute talk about anything, literally anything at all, hit
>>> me up
>>> > with an email :)
>>>
>>> Where and when is it?  Are there limits on how long talks are allowed to
>>> run?  Guidelines on topics?  Will there be recording and/or livestreaming
>>> of talks?
>>>
>>> > The Infamous Danny O'Brien has agreed to host this one as a clown. Of
>>> his own
>>> > free will. I'm serious.
>>>
>>> I suppose an individual is, in an anarchic sense, free to disregard zir
>>> contractual obligations.  In any case, Danny auctioned off this perk at
>>> 5MoF in February in exchange for a donation to Noisebridge.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:42:54 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Fedora on the 3d printer
>> Hi, nerysbridge.
>>
>> My last attempt at installing Fedora to the 3d printer was aborted early
>> on
>> when the whole system was totally wiped in favor of ubuntu, and left to
>> bitrot.
>>
>> I'm dual booting fedora and the current ubuntu system on there, and will
>> maintain the fedora one for a while, or at the very least make sure its
>> hard
>> to fuck with it.
>>
>> Can't even count the number of times someone's ran into problems with the
>> current setup that has 38572 configurations when someone wants to tweak
>> it and
>> ends up ruining the system for everyone who doesn't know to download a
>> fresh
>> copy of replicatorg.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Romy at snowyla" <romy at snowyla.com>
>> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:40:38 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Always be creating!!
>> Whoever put the katsuhiro book here kicks ass!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Romy at snowyla" <romy at snowyla.com>
>> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:54:01 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] More destress drawings
>> Ya! Thanks . I stopped by I'm very stressed but the manga is helping me
>> from going crazy
>>
>> Keep creating Noisebridge !!
>>
>> Stopping by @Noisebridge & enjoying the manga .. Katsuhiro saw the future
>> but drew with pen and ink #future #onesketchaday #hackerspace
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Patrick O'Doherty" <p at trickod.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 20:16:31 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] The windows are clean! It's excellent
>> I'm looking out on a great San Francsico sunset through the now spotless
>> windows at the space. It's really amazing.
>>
>> Thanks so much to Louis and whoever else helped out. The space is
>> looking really great this weekend with this and the cleaning ahead of
>> Maker Faire. Numerous visitors remarked on how great the place was
>> looking today while they touring the space
>>
>> p
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Patrick O'Doherty" <p at trickod.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 22:19:48 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Accepting CC donations @ Noisebridge
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> Noisebridge has a Square account which we can use to take in-person
>> credit card donations. There was some confusion as to where the credit
>> card readers were in the space, so I've left one in the donation bin by
>> the door. It'd be great if it could live there "permanently".
>>
>> If you'd like to be able to accept credit card donations on behalf of
>> Noisebridge reply to me off list and we'll set it up! It's very simple
>> to use, you just need your phone and a reader.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> p
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Rubin Abdi <rubin at starset.net>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 00:37:28 -0700
>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] CCCamp 2015, are you going? Camping with
>> Noiseburg?
>> Noisebridge would like to have a little village at CCCamp this year. If
>> you're interested about going and want to camp with Noiseburg, please hit
>> up this wiki page, throw your name down, and join the Congress mailing
>> list. I'll be calling for a meeting sometime in the next week so we can
>> pound out some details on what we want to do with our village.
>>
>> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Camp
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/congress
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Rubin
>> rubin at starset.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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