[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017

Revolt revoltrightnow at gmail.com
Fri Oct 13 18:50:51 UTC 2017


Hey everyone,
   Good discussion on this so far.  I'll add my .02 and clarify some things:

>> If someone were to actually do the research and find out how much it
>> would cost to hire an elevator repair company, maybe that’s $500,
>> maybe that’s $20,000

I've tried making the point many times before, but many of the repairs
/don't/ need an elevator repair company.  We need a machinist to fix
the gate.  All the repairs I did could have been done by any standard
electrician.  A quality union electrician runs ~$100/hr.  There are
cheaper alternatives.  I think a large part of the elevator confusion
comes from the assumption that
super-expert-vintage-elevator-repair-god is needed to do simple
repairs.  This is not the case.

>> would absolutely need to think about it if it cost $10,000 or
>> something.

I think people are throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.  I
am only asking to have a small (it can be any) amount of money set
aside for elevator repair.  I'm not sure why that needs to jump to a
discussion of thousands of dollars.  A couple hundred dollars would go
a really long way right now.  All this talk about $10K++ is really
avoiding the issue at hand and the real consensus request being made
here.  Has Noisebridge ever used its funds to even spend $100 on the
elevator?  To even consult with a single professional for 10 minutes?
No, not as far as I know.  That's what I am asking that we change.  If
that is impossible, than a small fund for parts at the very least.

>> In this actual case, this discussion led to an observer pledging money
>> to a dedicated Elevator Repair Fund nearly double the size of what was
>> originally requested, which I consider a good outcome.

This is great!  Who is this mystery person (or do they want to remain
anonymous?)  I would like to get in contact with them.  I can do some
of the research on a qualified repair person to come to NB and I can
fill them in on repairs so far.

-Zach

On 10/13/17, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>      we should settle on an upper limit for
> what we're willing to spend on elevator
> repairs, significantly less than $10K in
> my view.
>      I'm willing to chip in if someone tells
> me where, who, how.
>     i'm for an earmarked fund to be used for
> small, maybe medium, repairs in the case
> that we can't first get the landlord and
> agents to respond. the elevator is of
> elevated importance for disabled and for
> heavy loads (including garbae).
>
>
>
> On 10/13/2017 04:33 PM, John Shutt wrote:
>> I spent yesterday at the Department of Building Inspection with
>> revised plans, which were rejected since we need a signature from a
>> licensed architect. I’m reaching out to a friend who is a licensed
>> architect to see if I can get them to sign the drawings as the
>> architect of record. I also need to look into our insurance liability
>> for third-party “contractors” like architects or accountants.
>>
>> The possible consequence is that DBI decides to call a Director’s
>> Hearing, which hears evidence on the complaint and decides what to do
>> next. I have documentation showing that we tried to submit our plans
>> before the deadline, and a voicemail from the inspector saying that we
>> needed drawings “by a licensed architect or design professional,”
>> which is the root of the confusion: we have drawings by a design
>> professional, but not a licensed architect. So typically if it gets to
>> a Director’s Hearing and there are more inspections needed, we would
>> need to pay a fee for those extra inspections. I would push back on
>> that since we have clearly been trying hard to comply with the
>> instructions we were given.
>>
>> Bureaucracy is a mess, but we’ll get through it. We shouldn’t have to
>> tear down the SparkleForge.
>>
>> @Kevin: As I said before, from what I’ve been told, I’m the only
>> person who donated to Zach’s PayPal address when he posted it after
>> working to fix the elevator. I’m putting my personal money where my
>> mouth is when it comes to this, and I’m flat broke. Did you donate? If
>> not, how dismayed are you really?
>>
>> The two questions are whether Noisebridge should invest general fund
>> money into the building besides what we are ordered to invest by the
>> state, and whether Noisebridge should pay people out of the general
>> fund for their time and work on the space. From the feedback we’ve
>> gotten, the answer to the second question is no. People have blocking
>> concerns.
>>
>> The answer to the first question seems to be “yes, up to a point.” We
>> would absolutely need to think about it if it cost $10,000 or
>> something. Our lease is up next year. If we spend a huge amount of our
>> money on a building we don’t own and then get kicked out, we might be
>> screwed. Maybe that money would be better spent moving to a different
>> building. Maybe we can find a way to force the landlord to pay for it.
>> Have you researched how to force the landlord to pay? Or how much
>> repairs cost? Do you have numbers that could actually help us make
>> decisions about how to fix the elevator?
>>
>> Of course you have to think about this stuff. If you don’t think about
>> it you run out of money. If you do think about it, you survive. If
>> someone were to actually do the research and find out how much it
>> would cost to hire an elevator repair company, maybe that’s $500,
>> maybe that’s $20,000. Maybe if it’s $20,000 we still decide to spend
>> it. More likely we work it out with the landlord where we would pay
>> for the repairs and deduct it from our rent. Or if we can’t force the
>> landlord to comply, we hold a major fundraiser.
>>
>> As for your hypothetical, I would have the exact same response if
>> there was a critical issue with the third-floor door. I would suggest
>> that I would support spending a certain amount of money to fix it, but
>> it would be preferable if people raised money independently for the
>> project. That’s obviously preferable since it keeps from draining the
>> general fund.
>>
>> In this actual case, this discussion led to an observer pledging money
>> to a dedicated Elevator Repair Fund nearly double the size of what was
>> originally requested, which I consider a good outcome.  If that’s
>> inadequate to keep the elevator in good repair, then we can match it
>> with money from the equipment fund. So now we have $1,440 to work
>> with, without tapping the general fund. That’s $1,040 more than was
>> requested, and it’s available because we discussed it.
>>
>> If that’s still not enough, we can think and talk about tapping the
>> general fund—and my feeling is that we should! But it always has to be
>> talked about and thought through, to arrive at the best outcome.
>>
>> Best,
>> John Shutt
>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2017, at 10:55 PM, frankbn at nym.hush.com
>>> <mailto:frankbn at nym.hush.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the status of "Building Permit Application#inspectiongate?"
>>> What will happen at 2:00 PM Friday?
>>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:48:30 -0700 "kprichard"
>>> <kprichard at gmail.com <mailto:kprichard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Let's say the 3rd floor stairs door got stuck, nobody can come in
>>>> or out.
>>>> Landlord's repair person says they can't come for three weeks.
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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