[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 120, Issue 7

John Shutt john.d.shutt at gmail.com
Sun Oct 15 20:57:30 UTC 2017


I'm sorry you've been blocked from using the space by the busted elevator...

I spoke to people at Housing Inspection, which is where elevator complaints were directed, and they said they can't really do anything since we're a commercial building. Our only recourse might be if there's something in our lease that specifies the landlord will maintain the elevator, but I haven't seen our lease agreement. Anyone have a copy? I wouldn't mind negotiating that we would take over regular elevator maintenance and deduct it from our rent for future lease agreements, since the landlord isn't handling this stuff effectively.

I'm going to try to set up a chat with the executive director at The Lab, which is trying to buy the Redstone Building and told Mitch that they would offer Noisebridge a 15,000sqft space at below market. I want to get some actual numbers on the proposed rent and see how far along they are in trying to buy the building, as well as the state of the elevators, bathrooms, and everything else. 

Everyone who feels inclined to do so can look at other options if we need to or decide to move. Our lease is up next year, I think in August, so it would be good to have options well before then. I know Trent is also looking at the Redstone Building, and we've both done (a little) research on mortgages if Noisebridge were to try to buy a building and not be at the mercy of landlords any more.

John

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2017, at 2:59 AM, ilsa <ilsa.bartlett at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I stopped coming to offer my service in my reticent listening to people in crisis because of no elevator. Is there a search committee for a NB space without elevator problems. Character helps many move in a common direction. We may start in many directions  but it is important to recognize that there are people who just have been closed out. Are those who cannot walk up steps be tossed aside? 
> 
> How to get the landlord to behave better?
> Thanks, ilsa
> 
> Ilsa Bartlett
> Institute for Rewiring the System
> http://ilsabartlett.wordpress.com
> http://www.google.com/profiles/ilsa.bartlett
> www.hotlux.com/angel
> 
> "Don't ever get so big or important that you can not hear and listen to every other person."
> -John Coltrane
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:00 AM, <noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:
>> Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to
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>> 
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>    1. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (John Shutt)
>>    2. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (Trent Robbins)
>>    3. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (jim)
>>    4. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (Trent Robbins)
>>    5. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (John Shutt)
>>    6. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (jim)
>>    7. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (Revolt)
>>    8. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (jim)
>>    9. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (kprichard)
>>   10. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (John Shutt)
>>   11. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (John Shutt)
>>   12. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (Zach R)
>>   13. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (kprichard)
>>   14. Re: Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017 (frankbn at nym.hush.com)
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com>
>> To: Zach R <organicunity at hotmail.com>
>> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:33:37 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> X-post from #finance-wg on Slack:
>> 
>> I would support spending a certain amount of money for parts for the elevator, but share others' concerns about anyone getting paid for their time from the Noisebridge bank account. There are lots of critical tasks in addition to fixing the elevator: managing finances, cleaning trash, running the access control and server systems, leading tours, 86-ing hazardous people, etc. We can't pay for all of the work that needs to be done to keep the space running. Legally it's the landlord's responsibility to keep the elevator working, but they've done a very poor job and I recognize that DIY fixes will be faster. Even though we're spending money on a building we don't own, it's worth it to make the space accessible. As for a separate elevator fund, I think it would be best if there was a separate fundraising push or donation to make it happen, which was the case with the broadcast fund and equipment fund, but if it's less than $400 per year for parts I don't think spending from the general fund is a big deal.
>> 
>> Adding to the Slack post: I don't think $400 should necessarily be a cap on our budget for parts for the elevator, if it needs more than that. And I would encourage anyone interested in doing so to look into whether we can legally pay a licensed professional to fix the elevator and deduct the cost from our rent to the landlord.
>> 
>> I also think it would be excellent for people to donate money to Zach through PayPal for his work on the elevator, outside of Noisebridge funds. I donated what I could, which is unfortunately not much right now. I'm all for people being paid for their work, but know that Noisebridge itself can't afford to pay for all the critical work that has to be done to keep the space operating.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Zach R <organicunity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks for the meeting notes and facilitation Naomi.
>> >
>> > Here is a follow-up email as requested.  I brought this item up as a "small-c" item 2 weeks ago at the Noisebridge meeting.  I was told if nothing was done in 2 weeks that I should bring it up as a formal consensus item.  So here it is. The proposed consensus item is as follows:
>> >
>> > I request that we establish an Elevator Repair Fund at Noisebridge.  This fund could be as modest or ambitious as people like, but I believe a minimum of $400 per annual year would do a great deal to benefit the space.
>> >
>> > The elevator is necessary for those that use Noisebridge with mobility aids (such as wheelchairs), for people with non-visible disabilities (elderly, diabetes, MS, fibro, etc.), for incoming large furniture and donations, and for taking out the regular trash.
>> >
>> > As many know, the elevator was broken for a full 2 months recently.  Unlike broken tools or equipment, this made the space completely inaccessible for members in the community.  I think it would be most excellent to prevent this in the future by establishing a modest fund whereby we could hire people, obtain necessary parts and supplies, and keep this "must need" basic access to the space.
>> >
>> > Note: the elevator still needs a lot of work to be fully safe and operational.  There is machine work to fix the broken front gate, a missing call light downstairs, a call box repair, floor switch detection issues, and other things all documented on the elevator wiki.
>> >
>> > Looking forward to hearing input from the community.  Hopefully we can all agree that this would be a positive benefit to Noisebridge.
>> > .
>> > -Zach
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From: noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net [noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net] on behalf of Naomi Most [pnaomi at gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:02 PM
>> > To: Noisebridge Discuss
>> > Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> >
>> > Greetings, NB(D),
>> >
>> > A meeting occurred!
>> >
>> > Notably, we have a Real Live Consensus Item from Zach concerning the idea of setting up an officially set-aside Elevator Repair Fund.
>> >
>> > The argument revolves around the idea that the Elevator is a "must have" whereas stuff in the general equipment fund usually falls into the category of "it would be cool if".
>> >
>> > Zach should post a followup to this email to make his proposal more concrete.
>> >
>> > https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2017_10_10
>> >
>> >
>> > TLDR what happened at the meeting:
>> >
>> > *   Announcements: Haskell Class starting Oct 18th (every 1st and 3rd Wednesday). Cryptobuilders workshop every 2nd and 4th Wednesday.
>> > *   Finances: ???
>> > *   New members: nope but we should contact Merlin and let her know she's at 4 weeks!
>> > *   New philanthropists: nope
>> > *   Consensus Items: Elevator Repair Fund
>> > *   Discussion Items: people lost interest and went to the Internet Archive at this point.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Naomi Theora Most
>> > naomi at nthmost.com<mailto:naomi at nthmost.com>
>> > +1-415-728-7490
>> >
>> > skype: nthmost
>> >
>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Trent Robbins <robbintt at gmail.com>
>> To: John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:06:14 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> I feel that paying people for work they do on Noisebridge infrastructure runs counter to what Noisebridge is.
>> 
>> I wanted to write something complex but this webpage has a far better collection of thoughts than I could come up with on my own: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy
>> 
>> Trent
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> X-post from #finance-wg on Slack:
>>> 
>>> I would support spending a certain amount of money for parts for the elevator, but share others' concerns about anyone getting paid for their time from the Noisebridge bank account. There are lots of critical tasks in addition to fixing the elevator: managing finances, cleaning trash, running the access control and server systems, leading tours, 86-ing hazardous people, etc. We can't pay for all of the work that needs to be done to keep the space running. Legally it's the landlord's responsibility to keep the elevator working, but they've done a very poor job and I recognize that DIY fixes will be faster. Even though we're spending money on a building we don't own, it's worth it to make the space accessible. As for a separate elevator fund, I think it would be best if there was a separate fundraising push or donation to make it happen, which was the case with the broadcast fund and equipment fund, but if it's less than $400 per year for parts I don't think spending from the general f
>>>  und is a big deal.
>>> 
>>> Adding to the Slack post: I don't think $400 should necessarily be a cap on our budget for parts for the elevator, if it needs more than that. And I would encourage anyone interested in doing so to look into whether we can legally pay a licensed professional to fix the elevator and deduct the cost from our rent to the landlord.
>>> 
>>> I also think it would be excellent for people to donate money to Zach through PayPal for his work on the elevator, outside of Noisebridge funds. I donated what I could, which is unfortunately not much right now. I'm all for people being paid for their work, but know that Noisebridge itself can't afford to pay for all the critical work that has to be done to keep the space operating.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Zach R <organicunity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for the meeting notes and facilitation Naomi.
>>> >
>>> > Here is a follow-up email as requested.  I brought this item up as a "small-c" item 2 weeks ago at the Noisebridge meeting.  I was told if nothing was done in 2 weeks that I should bring it up as a formal consensus item.  So here it is. The proposed consensus item is as follows:
>>> >
>>> > I request that we establish an Elevator Repair Fund at Noisebridge.  This fund could be as modest or ambitious as people like, but I believe a minimum of $400 per annual year would do a great deal to benefit the space.
>>> >
>>> > The elevator is necessary for those that use Noisebridge with mobility aids (such as wheelchairs), for people with non-visible disabilities (elderly, diabetes, MS, fibro, etc.), for incoming large furniture and donations, and for taking out the regular trash.
>>> >
>>> > As many know, the elevator was broken for a full 2 months recently.  Unlike broken tools or equipment, this made the space completely inaccessible for members in the community.  I think it would be most excellent to prevent this in the future by establishing a modest fund whereby we could hire people, obtain necessary parts and supplies, and keep this "must need" basic access to the space.
>>> >
>>> > Note: the elevator still needs a lot of work to be fully safe and operational.  There is machine work to fix the broken front gate, a missing call light downstairs, a call box repair, floor switch detection issues, and other things all documented on the elevator wiki.
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to hearing input from the community.  Hopefully we can all agree that this would be a positive benefit to Noisebridge.
>>> > .
>>> > -Zach
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________
>>> > From: noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net [noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net] on behalf of Naomi Most [pnaomi at gmail.com]
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:02 PM
>>> > To: Noisebridge Discuss
>>> > Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>>> >
>>> > Greetings, NB(D),
>>> >
>>> > A meeting occurred!
>>> >
>>> > Notably, we have a Real Live Consensus Item from Zach concerning the idea of setting up an officially set-aside Elevator Repair Fund.
>>> >
>>> > The argument revolves around the idea that the Elevator is a "must have" whereas stuff in the general equipment fund usually falls into the category of "it would be cool if".
>>> >
>>> > Zach should post a followup to this email to make his proposal more concrete.
>>> >
>>> > https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2017_10_10
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > TLDR what happened at the meeting:
>>> >
>>> > *   Announcements: Haskell Class starting Oct 18th (every 1st and 3rd Wednesday). Cryptobuilders workshop every 2nd and 4th Wednesday.
>>> > *   Finances: ???
>>> > *   New members: nope but we should contact Merlin and let her know she's at 4 weeks!
>>> > *   New philanthropists: nope
>>> > *   Consensus Items: Elevator Repair Fund
>>> > *   Discussion Items: people lost interest and went to the Internet Archive at this point.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Naomi Theora Most
>>> > naomi at nthmost.com<mailto:naomi at nthmost.com>
>>> > +1-415-728-7490
>>> >
>>> > skype: nthmost
>>> >
>>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: jim <jim at well.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc: 
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:45:11 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> 
>> +1 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/12/2017 07:06 PM, Trent Robbins wrote:
>>> I feel that paying people for work they do on Noisebridge infrastructure runs counter to what Noisebridge is.
>>> 
>>> I wanted to write something complex but this webpage has a far better collection of thoughts than I could come up with on my own: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy
>>> 
>>> Trent
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> X-post from #finance-wg on Slack:
>>>> 
>>>> I would support spending a certain amount of money for parts for the elevator, but share others' concerns about anyone getting paid for their time from the Noisebridge bank account. There are lots of critical tasks in addition to fixing the elevator: managing finances, cleaning trash, running the access control and server systems, leading tours, 86-ing hazardous people, etc. We can't pay for all of the work that needs to be done to keep the space running. Legally it's the landlord's responsibility to keep the elevator working, but they've done a very poor job and I recognize that DIY fixes will be faster. Even though we're spending money on a building we don't own, it's worth it to make the space accessible. As for a separate elevator fund, I think it would be best if there was a separate fundraising push or donation to make it happen, which was the case with the broadcast fund and equipment fund, but if it's less than $400 per year for parts I don't think spending from the general f
>>>>  und is a big deal.
>>>> 
>>>> Adding to the Slack post: I don't think $400 should necessarily be a cap on our budget for parts for the elevator, if it needs more than that. And I would encourage anyone interested in doing so to look into whether we can legally pay a licensed professional to fix the elevator and deduct the cost from our rent to the landlord.
>>>> 
>>>> I also think it would be excellent for people to donate money to Zach through PayPal for his work on the elevator, outside of Noisebridge funds. I donated what I could, which is unfortunately not much right now. I'm all for people being paid for their work, but know that Noisebridge itself can't afford to pay for all the critical work that has to be done to keep the space operating.
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Zach R <organicunity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for the meeting notes and facilitation Naomi.
>>>> >
>>>> > Here is a follow-up email as requested.  I brought this item up as a "small-c" item 2 weeks ago at the Noisebridge meeting.  I was told if nothing was done in 2 weeks that I should bring it up as a formal consensus item.  So here it is. The proposed consensus item is as follows:
>>>> >
>>>> > I request that we establish an Elevator Repair Fund at Noisebridge.  This fund could be as modest or ambitious as people like, but I believe a minimum of $400 per annual year would do a great deal to benefit the space.
>>>> >
>>>> > The elevator is necessary for those that use Noisebridge with mobility aids (such as wheelchairs), for people with non-visible disabilities (elderly, diabetes, MS, fibro, etc.), for incoming large furniture and donations, and for taking out the regular trash.
>>>> >
>>>> > As many know, the elevator was broken for a full 2 months recently.  Unlike broken tools or equipment, this made the space completely inaccessible for members in the community.  I think it would be most excellent to prevent this in the future by establishing a modest fund whereby we could hire people, obtain necessary parts and supplies, and keep this "must need" basic access to the space.
>>>> >
>>>> > Note: the elevator still needs a lot of work to be fully safe and operational.  There is machine work to fix the broken front gate, a missing call light downstairs, a call box repair, floor switch detection issues, and other things all documented on                     the elevator wiki.
>>>> >
>>>> > Looking forward to hearing input from the community.  Hopefully we can all agree that this would be a positive benefit to Noisebridge.
>>>> > .
>>>> > -Zach
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ________________________________________
>>>> > From: noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net [noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net] on behalf of Naomi Most [pnaomi at gmail.com]
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:02 PM
>>>> > To: Noisebridge Discuss
>>>> > Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>>>> >
>>>> > Greetings, NB(D),
>>>> >
>>>> > A meeting occurred!
>>>> >
>>>> > Notably, we have a Real Live Consensus Item from Zach concerning the idea of setting up an officially set-aside Elevator Repair Fund.
>>>> >
>>>> > The argument revolves around the idea that the Elevator is a "must have" whereas stuff in the general equipment fund usually falls into the category of "it would be cool if".
>>>> >
>>>> > Zach should post a followup to this email to make his proposal more concrete.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2017_10_10
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > TLDR what happened at the meeting:
>>>> >
>>>> > *   Announcements: Haskell Class starting Oct 18th (every 1st and 3rd Wednesday). Cryptobuilders workshop every 2nd and 4th Wednesday.
>>>> > *   Finances: ???
>>>> > *   New members: nope but we should contact Merlin and let her know she's at 4 weeks!
>>>> > *   New philanthropists: nope
>>>> > *   Consensus Items: Elevator Repair Fund
>>>> > *   Discussion Items: people lost interest and went to the Internet Archive at this point.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Naomi Theora Most
>>>> > naomi at nthmost.com<mailto:naomi at nthmost.com>
>>>> > +1-415-728-7490
>>>> >
>>>> > skype: nthmost
>>>> >
>>>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Trent Robbins <robbintt at gmail.com>
>> To: jim <jim at well.com>
>> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:03:02 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> With regards to the elevator fund, I think $400 is too low and don't see any need to put a cap on expenses within reasonable expense.  As I mentioned in a previous email I don't support paying individuals for work except if mandated to do so by the state.
>> 
>> Trent
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 12:45 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> +1 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10/12/2017 07:06 PM, Trent Robbins wrote:
>>>> I feel that paying people for work they do on Noisebridge infrastructure runs counter to what Noisebridge is.
>>>> 
>>>> I wanted to write something complex but this webpage has a far better collection of thoughts than I could come up with on my own: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy
>>>> 
>>>> Trent
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> X-post from #finance-wg on Slack:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would support spending a certain amount of money for parts for the elevator, but share others' concerns about                 anyone getting paid for their time from the Noisebridge bank account. There are lots of critical tasks in addition to fixing the elevator: managing finances, cleaning trash, running the access control and server systems, leading tours, 86-ing hazardous people, etc. We can't pay for all of the work that needs to be done to keep the space running. Legally it's the landlord's responsibility to keep the elevator working, but they've done a very poor job and I recognize that DIY fixes will                 be faster. Even though we're spending money on a building we don't own, it's worth it to make the space accessible. As for a separate elevator fund, I think it would be best if there was a separate fundraising push or donation to make it happen, which was the case with the broadcast fund and equipment fund, but if it's less than $400 per year for parts I don't think spending from the general f
>>>>>  und is a big deal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Adding to the Slack post: I don't think $400 should necessarily be a cap on our budget for parts for the elevator, if it needs more than that. And I would encourage anyone interested in doing so to look into whether we can legally pay a licensed professional to fix the elevator and deduct the cost from our rent to the landlord.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also think it would be excellent for people to donate money to Zach through PayPal for his work on the elevator, outside of Noisebridge funds. I donated what I could, which is unfortunately not much right now. I'm all for people being paid for their work, but know that Noisebridge itself can't afford to pay for all the critical work that has to be done to keep the space operating.
>>>>> 
>>>>> John
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Zach R <organicunity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks for the meeting notes and facilitation Naomi.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Here is a follow-up email as requested.  I brought this item up as a "small-c" item 2 weeks ago at the Noisebridge meeting.  I was told if nothing was done in 2 weeks that I should bring it up as a formal consensus item.  So here it is. The proposed consensus item is as follows:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I request that we establish an Elevator Repair Fund at Noisebridge.  This fund could be as modest or ambitious as people like, but I believe a minimum of $400 per annual year would do a great deal to benefit the space.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The elevator is necessary for those that use Noisebridge with mobility aids (such as wheelchairs), for people with non-visible disabilities (elderly, diabetes, MS, fibro, etc.), for incoming large furniture and donations, and for taking out the regular trash.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As many know, the elevator was broken for a full 2 months recently.  Unlike broken tools or equipment, this made the space completely inaccessible for members in the community.  I think it would be most excellent to prevent this in the future by establishing a modest fund whereby we could hire people, obtain necessary parts and supplies, and keep this "must need" basic access to the space.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Note: the elevator still needs a lot of work to be fully safe and operational.  There is machine work to fix the broken front gate, a missing call light downstairs, a call box repair, floor switch detection issues, and other things all documented on the elevator wiki.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Looking forward to hearing input from the community.  Hopefully we can all agree that this would be a positive benefit to Noisebridge.
>>>>> > .
>>>>> > -Zach
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ________________________________________
>>>>> > From: noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net [noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net] on behalf of Naomi Most [pnaomi at gmail.com]
>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:02 PM
>>>>> > To: Noisebridge Discuss
>>>>> > Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Greetings, NB(D),
>>>>> >
>>>>> > A meeting occurred!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Notably, we have a Real Live Consensus Item from Zach concerning the idea of setting up an officially set-aside Elevator Repair Fund.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The argument revolves around the idea that the Elevator is a "must have" whereas stuff in the general equipment fund usually falls into the category of "it would be cool if".
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Zach should post a followup to this email to make his proposal more concrete.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2017_10_10
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > TLDR what happened at the meeting:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > *   Announcements: Haskell Class starting Oct 18th (every 1st and 3rd Wednesday). Cryptobuilders workshop every 2nd and 4th Wednesday.
>>>>> > *   Finances: ???
>>>>> > *   New members: nope but we should contact Merlin and let her know she's at 4 weeks!
>>>>> > *   New philanthropists: nope
>>>>> > *   Consensus Items: Elevator Repair Fund
>>>>> > *   Discussion Items: people lost interest and went to the Internet Archive at this point.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Naomi Theora Most
>>>>> > naomi at nthmost.com<mailto:naomi at nthmost.com>
>>>>> > +1-415-728-7490
>>>>> >
>>>>> > skype: nthmost
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com>
>> To: Trent Robbins <robbintt at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:42:38 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> I would like to avoid investing thousands more into common area repairs on a building we might get kicked out of when our lease ends next year, so we should be judicious in how we spend general fund money on the elevator. If there's a way to force the landlord to pay, that would be good. If we can pay for it ourselves and deduct the cost from our rent, even better, since the landlord is so slow at fixing the issue.
>> 
>> We also need to consider our two other options of trying to buy the building, which would mean we can confidently spend as much as needed on the elevator knowing the building is ours, or moving to the Redstone Building, where we may have an offer for a 15,000sqft space at below market rate. The Redstone thing is pretty vague right now, but we have some sense of how much 2169 Mission is worth, and I'm pretty confident we could cover a mortgage if we can get a down payment together and the owner is willing to sell.
>> 
>> With our lease running out next year, I want to keep growing the general fund cushion, since we may need it to survive.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Trent Robbins <robbintt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> With regards to the elevator fund, I think $400 is too low and don't see any need to put a cap on expenses within reasonable expense.  As I mentioned in a previous email I don't support paying individuals for work except if mandated to do so by the state.
>>> 
>>> Trent
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 12:45 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> +1 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/12/2017 07:06 PM, Trent Robbins wrote:
>>>>> I feel that paying people for work they do on Noisebridge infrastructure runs counter to what Noisebridge is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wanted to write something complex but this webpage has a far better collection of thoughts than I could come up with on my own: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy
>>>>> 
>>>>> Trent
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> X-post from #finance-wg on Slack:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would support spending a certain amount of money for parts for the elevator, but share others' concerns about anyone getting paid for their time from the Noisebridge bank account. There are lots of critical tasks in addition to fixing the elevator: managing finances,                 cleaning trash, running the access control and server systems, leading tours, 86-ing hazardous people, etc. We can't pay for all of the work that needs to be done to keep the space running. Legally it's the landlord's responsibility to keep the elevator working, but they've done a very poor job and I recognize that DIY fixes will be faster. Even though we're spending money on a building we don't own, it's worth it to make the space accessible. As for a separate elevator fund, I think it would be best if there was a separate fundraising push or donation to make it happen, which was the case with the broadcast fund and equipment fund, but if it's less than $400 per year for parts I don't think spending from the general f
>>>>>>  und is a big deal.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Adding to the Slack post: I don't think $400 should necessarily be a cap on our budget for parts for the elevator, if it needs more than that. And I would encourage anyone interested in doing so to look into whether we can legally pay a licensed professional to fix the elevator and deduct the cost from our rent to the landlord.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also think it would be excellent for people to donate money to Zach through PayPal for his work on the elevator, outside of Noisebridge funds. I donated what I could, which is unfortunately not much right now. I'm all for people being paid for their work, but know that Noisebridge itself can't afford to pay for all the critical work that has to be done to keep the space operating.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Zach R <organicunity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Thanks for the meeting notes and facilitation Naomi.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Here is a follow-up email as requested.  I brought this item up as a "small-c" item 2 weeks ago at the Noisebridge meeting.  I was told if nothing was done in 2 weeks that I should bring it up as a formal consensus item.  So here it is. The proposed consensus item is as follows:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I request that we establish an Elevator Repair Fund at Noisebridge.  This fund could be as modest or ambitious as people like, but I believe a minimum of $400 per annual year would do a great deal to benefit the space.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The elevator is necessary for those that use Noisebridge with mobility aids (such as wheelchairs), for people with non-visible disabilities (elderly, diabetes, MS, fibro, etc.), for incoming large furniture and donations, and for taking out the regular trash.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > As many know, the elevator was broken for a full 2 months recently.  Unlike broken tools or equipment, this made the space completely inaccessible for members in the community.  I think it would be most excellent to prevent this in the future by establishing a modest fund whereby we could hire people, obtain necessary parts and supplies, and keep this "must need" basic access to the space.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Note: the elevator still needs a lot of work to be fully safe and operational.  There is machine work to fix the broken front gate, a missing call light downstairs, a call box repair, floor switch detection issues, and other things all documented on the elevator wiki.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Looking forward to hearing input from the community.  Hopefully we can all agree that this would be a positive benefit to Noisebridge.
>>>>>> > .
>>>>>> > -Zach
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ________________________________________
>>>>>> > From: noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net [noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net] on behalf of Naomi Most [pnaomi at gmail.com]
>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:02 PM
>>>>>> > To: Noisebridge Discuss
>>>>>> > Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Greetings, NB(D),
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > A meeting occurred!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Notably, we have a Real Live Consensus Item from Zach concerning the idea of setting up an officially set-aside Elevator Repair Fund.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The argument revolves around the idea that the Elevator is a "must have" whereas stuff in the general equipment fund usually falls into the category of "it would be cool if".
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Zach should post a followup to this email to make his proposal more concrete.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2017_10_10
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > TLDR what happened at the meeting:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *   Announcements: Haskell Class starting Oct 18th (every 1st and 3rd Wednesday). Cryptobuilders workshop every 2nd and 4th Wednesday.
>>>>>> > *   Finances: ???
>>>>>> > *   New members: nope but we should contact Merlin and let her know she's at 4 weeks!
>>>>>> > *   New philanthropists: nope
>>>>>> > *   Consensus Items: Elevator Repair Fund
>>>>>> > *   Discussion Items: people lost interest and went to the Internet Archive at this point.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Naomi Theora Most
>>>>>> > naomi at nthmost.com<mailto:naomi at nthmost.com>
>>>>>> > +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > skype: nthmost
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: jim <jim at well.com>
>> To: Trent Robbins <robbintt at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:59:05 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> 
>>     seems to me the elevator fund should provide some 
>> money, mostly enough to pay all or most of anticipated 
>> parts required: what kinds of parts are we likely to 
>> need, where to get (or make) them (* optional story 
>> below *), what cost each? 
>>     should be okay that the fund is somewhat insufficient; 
>> it should be enough for any small parts and near enough 
>> for likely expensive parts. 
>> 
>>     v. bad idea to pay NB members for their time working 
>> to improve the place. 
>> 
>> 
>> [* optional story, a great hack in the desert *] 
>>     An American on adventure drove through the Baja 
>> peninsula. Roads and heat were rough. At some point 
>> the vehicle threw a rod (metal link between a piston 
>> and engine crank). 
>>     The American was used to going to parts stores. No 
>> parts stores in the Baja desert, but there was a woman 
>> who lived there. The American approached her and asked 
>> where were parts stores? 
>>     The woman asked what was wrong. He explained. She 
>> told him it was okay, there were no parts stores, but 
>> she could fix the problem. 
>>     The two of them dismantled the engine to the point 
>> they could extract the broken rod. The woman took the 
>> two pieces of the rod and pressed them together into 
>> the desert sand. 
>>     She then got out an oxy-acetylene torch and blasted 
>> the two pieces of the rod until they melted. Pressed 
>> into the soil, the molten metal had no place to go other 
>> than to reform itself into the cavity made by the two 
>> pieces of the broken rod. Presto, a new, unbroken rod. 
>>     After it cooled, they re-installed the rod and 
>> re-assembled the engine. 
>>     The American was able to drive away (and probably 
>> found a parts store on his travels). 
>> 
>>     We might try that if some custom part breaks: press 
>> the pieces together in some sand or proper clay and 
>> fire up a torch to recreate the part. 
>> [end optional story] 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/12/2017 08:03 PM, Trent Robbins wrote:
>>> With regards to the elevator fund, I think $400 is too low and don't see any need to put a cap on expenses within reasonable expense.  As I mentioned in a previous email I don't support paying individuals for work except if mandated to do so by the state.
>>> 
>>> Trent
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 12:45 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> +1 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/12/2017 07:06 PM, Trent Robbins wrote:
>>>>> I feel that paying people for work they do on Noisebridge infrastructure runs counter to what Noisebridge is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wanted to write something complex but this webpage has a far better collection of                           thoughts than I could come up with on my own: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy
>>>>> 
>>>>> Trent
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:33 AM, John Shutt <john.d.shutt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> X-post from #finance-wg on Slack:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would support spending a certain amount of money for parts for the elevator, but share others' concerns about anyone getting paid for their time from the Noisebridge bank account. There are lots of critical tasks in addition to fixing the elevator: managing finances, cleaning trash, running the access control and server systems, leading tours, 86-ing hazardous people, etc. We can't pay for all of the work that needs to be done to keep the space running. Legally it's the landlord's responsibility to keep the elevator working, but they've done a very poor job and I recognize that DIY fixes will be faster. Even though we're spending money on a building we don't own, it's worth it to make the space accessible. As for a separate elevator fund, I think it would be best if there was a separate fundraising push or donation to make it happen, which was the case with the broadcast fund and equipment fund, but if it's less than $400 per year for parts I don't think spending from the general f
>>>>>>  und is a big deal.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Adding to the Slack post: I don't think $400 should necessarily be a cap on our budget for parts for the elevator, if it needs more than that. And I would encourage anyone interested in doing so to look into whether we can legally pay a licensed professional to fix the elevator and deduct the cost from our rent to the landlord.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also think it would be excellent for people to donate money to Zach through                                 PayPal for his work on the elevator, outside of Noisebridge funds. I donated what I could, which is unfortunately not much right now. I'm all for people being paid for their work, but know that Noisebridge itself can't afford to pay for all the critical work that has to be done to keep the space operating.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Zach R <organicunity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Thanks for the meeting notes and facilitation Naomi.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Here is a follow-up email as requested.  I brought this item up as a "small-c" item 2 weeks ago at the Noisebridge meeting.  I was told if nothing was done in 2 weeks that I should bring it up as a formal consensus item.  So here it is. The proposed consensus item is as follows:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I request that we establish an Elevator Repair Fund at Noisebridge.  This fund could be as modest or ambitious as people like, but I believe a minimum of $400 per annual year would do a great deal to benefit the space.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The elevator is necessary for those that use Noisebridge with mobility aids (such as wheelchairs), for people with non-visible disabilities (elderly, diabetes, MS, fibro, etc.), for incoming large furniture and donations, and for taking out the regular trash.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > As many know, the elevator was broken for a full 2 months recently.  Unlike broken tools or equipment, this made the space completely inaccessible for members in the community.  I think it would be most excellent to prevent this in                                     the future by establishing a modest fund whereby we could hire people, obtain necessary parts and supplies, and keep this "must need" basic access to the space.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Note: the elevator still needs a lot of work to be fully safe and operational.  There is machine work to fix the broken front gate, a missing call light downstairs, a call box repair, floor switch detection issues, and other things all documented on the elevator wiki.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Looking forward to hearing input from the community.  Hopefully we can all agree that this would be a positive benefit to Noisebridge.
>>>>>> > .
>>>>>> > -Zach
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ________________________________________
>>>>>> > From: noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net [noisebridge-discuss-bounces at lists.noisebridge.net] on behalf of Naomi Most [pnaomi at gmail.com]
>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:02 PM
>>>>>> > To: Noisebridge Discuss
>>>>>> > Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Greetings, NB(D),
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > A meeting occurred!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Notably, we have a Real Live Consensus Item from Zach concerning the idea of setting up an officially set-aside Elevator Repair Fund.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The argument revolves around the idea that the Elevator is a "must have" whereas stuff in the general equipment fund usually falls into the category of "it would be cool if".
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Zach should post a followup to this email to make his proposal more concrete.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2017_10_10
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > TLDR what happened at the meeting:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *   Announcements: Haskell Class starting Oct 18th (every 1st and 3rd Wednesday). Cryptobuilders workshop every 2nd and 4th Wednesday.
>>>>>> > *   Finances: ???
>>>>>> > *   New members: nope but we should contact Merlin and let her know she's at 4 weeks!
>>>>>> > *   New philanthropists: nope
>>>>>> > *   Consensus Items: Elevator Repair Fund
>>>>>> > *   Discussion Items: people lost interest and went to the Internet Archive at this point.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Naomi Theora Most
>>>>>> > naomi at nthmost.com<mailto:naomi at nthmost.com>
>>>>>> > +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > skype: nthmost
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> _______________________________________________ Noisebridge-discuss mailing list Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Revolt <revoltrightnow at gmail.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc: 
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:02:21 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> Sending replies from my other emails since my hotmail address is
>> bouncing on the discuss (I cannot figure out who NB Discuss Admin is,
>> can someone put me into contact with them?)
>> ------
>> 
>> John makes some good points about re: ownership of building.  The
>> landlord should pay, but they are not going to and the laws do not
>> make it easy for us to "force" them.  This just isn't going to happen,
>> or it would have happened a long time ago.  Like most all things at
>> NB, this issue needs to be solved collectively by members of the
>> community.
>> 
>> >so we should be judicious in how we spend general fund money on the elevator.>
>> Agreed.  That is why I am suggesting a modest $400/year or less budget
>> for repairs
>> 
>> >our lease ends next year>
>> This is good to know, I wasn't aware of this.
>> 
>> >I would like to avoid investing thousands more into common area repairs>
>> I don't see how this applies.  $400/year or less would not amount to
>> spending anywhere near thousands of dollars if we move in 1 year...
>> 
>> -Zach
>> ---
>> Here's what I sent earlier today (bounced from list so far):
>> 
>> RE: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> Zach R
>> jim (jim at well.com);noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> I think Trent makes a good point about member work at NB not being
>> something funds are for.  i.e. the Treasure is a good example of
>> something necessary for NB to function as well.
>> 
>> To clarify, could we agree to at least one  or both of the following
>> uses of an Elevator Fund?
>> 
>> 1) to hire /outside/ professional help with elevator repair (from a
>> private company or union that would issue a receipt)
>> 2) to purchase parts for the elevator (with receipts)
>> 
>> I understand the perspective of fundraising, but this requires work
>> and I have tried this already appealing to lots of people with
>> literally zero results.  When something as necessary as the elevator
>> is broken it shouldn't require months of fundraising efforts to get
>> basic funds to make it run again...
>> 
>> The landlord hasn't just done a poor job, they haven't done a job at
>> all.  The elevator would still be broken if myself and others hadn't
>> spent the hours repairing it.  This was hard to do with my
>> disabilities and I was not able to attempt it for months.  I had to
>> injure myself and take the full initiative on this, no one else setup
>> time to repair it.  This situation was unexcellent and I am trying to
>> avoid it in the future not if, but /when/ the elevator breaks again.
>> 
>> Lastly, we have NB funds put aside for things less crucial than the
>> elevator.  It seems reasonable to have a small fund for this.  It
>> could be literally any amount.  I thought $400/year was a reasonable
>> place to start the conversation.
>> 
>> -Zach
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: jim <jim at well.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc: 
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:20:28 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> 
>> seems right to me
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/12/2017 10:02 PM, Revolt wrote:
>>> Sending replies from my other emails since my hotmail address is
>>> bouncing on the discuss (I cannot figure out who NB Discuss Admin is,
>>> can someone put me into contact with them?)
>>> ------
>>> 
>>> John makes some good points about re: ownership of building.  The
>>> landlord should pay, but they are not going to and the laws do not
>>> make it easy for us to "force" them.  This just isn't going to happen,
>>> or it would have happened a long time ago.  Like most all things at
>>> NB, this issue needs to be solved collectively by members of the
>>> community.
>>> 
>>>> so we should be judicious in how we spend general fund money on the elevator.>
>>> Agreed.  That is why I am suggesting a modest $400/year or less budget
>>> for repairs
>>> 
>>>> our lease ends next year>
>>> This is good to know, I wasn't aware of this.
>>> 
>>>> I would like to avoid investing thousands more into common area repairs>
>>> I don't see how this applies.  $400/year or less would not amount to
>>> spending anywhere near thousands of dollars if we move in 1 year...
>>> 
>>> -Zach
>>> ---
>>> Here's what I sent earlier today (bounced from list so far):
>>> 
>>> RE: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>>> Zach R
>>> jim (jim at well.com);noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> I think Trent makes a good point about member work at NB not being
>>> something funds are for.  i.e. the Treasure is a good example of
>>> something necessary for NB to function as well.
>>> 
>>> To clarify, could we agree to at least one  or both of the following
>>> uses of an Elevator Fund?
>>> 
>>> 1) to hire /outside/ professional help with elevator repair (from a
>>> private company or union that would issue a receipt)
>>> 2) to purchase parts for the elevator (with receipts)
>>> 
>>> I understand the perspective of fundraising, but this requires work
>>> and I have tried this already appealing to lots of people with
>>> literally zero results.  When something as necessary as the elevator
>>> is broken it shouldn't require months of fundraising efforts to get
>>> basic funds to make it run again...
>>> 
>>> The landlord hasn't just done a poor job, they haven't done a job at
>>> all.  The elevator would still be broken if myself and others hadn't
>>> spent the hours repairing it.  This was hard to do with my
>>> disabilities and I was not able to attempt it for months.  I had to
>>> injure myself and take the full initiative on this, no one else setup
>>> time to repair it.  This situation was unexcellent and I am trying to
>>> avoid it in the future not if, but /when/ the elevator breaks again.
>>> 
>>> Lastly, we have NB funds put aside for things less crucial than the
>>> elevator.  It seems reasonable to have a small fund for this.  It
>>> could be literally any amount.  I thought $400/year was a reasonable
>>> place to start the conversation.
>>> 
>>> -Zach
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: kprichard <kprichard at gmail.com>
>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Cc: 
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:19:59 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>> If the landlord has sole responsibility for keeping the elevator running, under the lease, consider sending them a bill for the parts/labor.  Zach, Henner & Co did the thing, where the landlord's people were unable.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:20 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> seems right to me
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10/12/2017 10:02 PM, Revolt wrote:
>>>> Sending replies from my other emails since my hotmail address is
>>>> bouncing on the discuss (I cannot figure out who NB Discuss Admin is,
>>>> can someone put me into contact with them?)
>>>> ------
>>>> 
>>>> John makes some good points about re: ownership of building.  The
>>>> landlord should pay, but they are not going to and the laws do not
>>>> make it easy for us to "force" them.  This just isn't going to happen,
>>>> or it would have happened a long time ago.  Like most all things at
>>>> NB, this issue needs to be solved collectively by members of the
>>>> community.
>>>> 
>>>>> so we should be judicious in how we spend general fund money on the elevator.>
>>>> Agreed.  That is why I am suggesting a modest $400/year or less budget
>>>> for repairs
>>>> 
>>>>> our lease ends next year>
>>>> This is good to know, I wasn't aware of this.
>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to avoid investing thousands more into common area repairs>
>>>> I don't see how this applies.  $400/year or less would not amount to
>>>> spending anywhere near thousands of dollars if we move in 1 year...
>>>> 
>>>> -Zach
>>>> ---
>>>> Here's what I sent earlier today (bounced from list so far):
>>>> 
>>>> RE: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017
>>>> Zach R
>>>> jim (jim at well.com);noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> I think Trent makes a good point about member work at NB not being
>>>> something funds are for.  i.e. the Treasure is a good example of
>>>> something necessary for NB to function as well.
>>>> 
>>>> To clarify, could we agree to at least one  or both of the following
>>>> uses of an Elevator Fund?
>>>> 
>>>> 1) to hire /outside/ professional help with elevator repair (from a
>>>> private company or union that would issue a receipt)
>>>> 2) to purchase parts for the elevator (with receipts)
>>>> 
>>>> I understand the perspective of fundraising, but this requires work
>>>> and I have tried this already appealing to lots of people with
>>>> literally zero results.  When something as necessary as the elevator
>>>> is broken it shouldn't require months of fundraising efforts to get
>>>> basic funds to make it run again...
>>>> 
>>>> The landlord hasn't just done a poor job, they haven't done a job at
>>>> all.  The elevator would still be broken if myself and others hadn't
>>>> spent the hours repairing it.  This was hard to do with my
>>>> disabilities and I was not able to attempt it for months.  I had to
>>>> injure myself and take the full initiative on this, no one else setup
>>>> time to repair it.  This situation was unexcellent and I am trying to
>>>> avoid it in the future not if, but /when/ the elevator breaks again.
>>>> 
>>>> Lastly, we have NB funds put aside for things less crucial than the
>>>> elevator.  It seems reasonable to have a small fund for this.  It
>>>> could be literally any amount.  I thought $400/year was a reasonable
>>>> place to start the conversation.
>>>> 
>>>> -Zach
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>> [Message clipped]  
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