<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">How about a portable Heat-Pump unit?<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.air-n-water.com/product/LX-140.html?utm_source=googlebase&amp;utm_medium=comparisonshopping">http://www.air-n-water.com/product/LX-140.html?utm_source=googlebase&amp;utm_medium=comparisonshopping</a></div><div><br></div><div>My parents have been using a window mount unit at their place in the central valley for like 10 years (they did opt to add a pellet stove as well though).</div><div><br></div><div>These work well when the outside air isn't so cold as to make the "outside air" coil develop ice. &nbsp;Luckily SF doesn't get that cold.</div><div><br></div><div>The upside is it's more efficient than regular electric heat.</div><div>Regular wall plug electric heater (converts 100% of electricity to heat) :&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>1500 watts X 3.41 Watts/BTU/Hr = 5115 BTU/Hr</div><div><br></div><div>Heat Pump Unit:</div><div><li class="spec">Heating Capacity:12,000 BTU/Hr
</li><li class="spec">Power Consumption: Heating- 1160 W</li><div><br></div><div>That looks like about 200% of the heating for about 77% of the electricity. &nbsp;In terms of total heating capacity it would be equivelent to 2 1500 Watt wall plug heaters costing about $35 each (less if one accepts the loud ones, more if one wants the spiffy quartz radiant ones).</div></div><div><br></div><div>The downside is that it needs access to a window, isn't quiet, and cost $500 bucks.</div><div><br></div><div>On other notes, any kind of convection heater (the oil filled radiator ones) will be a poor choice because they act slow and heat _all_ the air in a room, which is actually a lot more air than we want heated (because we technically have only one room).</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>mike</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Vlad Spears wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>It's not random fire from the installation I would be concerned &nbsp;<br>about. &nbsp;That should be fine. &nbsp;I think the "random fire in noisebridge" &nbsp;<br>might go something like this:<br><br>"It's pretty warm here by the stove, but not all the way over by the &nbsp;<br>far side where I want to sit."<br><br>"I know! &nbsp;Let's build a supplementary stove from cpu casings lined &nbsp;<br>with tinfoil and crushed kitchen tile, and move some of the fire over &nbsp;<br>there with an old hard drive platter."<br><br>"Brilliant! &nbsp;If this works out, we can put it on top of the dark room!"<br><br>Vlad<br><br><br><br><br>On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Martin Bogomolni wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">There's nothing "random" about the installation of a pellet burning<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stove. &nbsp;Installing one in San Francisco requires permits, proper<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ventilation and ductwork installed by qualified contractors, etc.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">There are also regular "burn bans" in San Francisco to preserve air<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">quality, usually on the coldest days of the year. &nbsp;So just when you<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">want to burn the most, you can't.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Six of one, half a dozen of the other, it's pretty economical, but a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pain in the butt to install one.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-Martin<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Shannon Lee &lt;<a href="mailto:shannon@scatter.com">shannon@scatter.com</a>&gt; &nbsp;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hey,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There was some discussion about having propane heat, specifically &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">so that we<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">can get people who want heat to fund heat on a very atomic level. &nbsp;&nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">We have<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">been leaning against it because of fire hazards; specifically, we &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have an<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">extensive sprinkler system, so even a small fire problem can turn &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">into a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">huge water problem.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I just see a huge potential problem with random fire in noisebridge.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--S<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Kevin Warnock &lt;<a href="mailto:kevin@warnock.com">kevin@warnock.com</a>&gt; &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This is my first post to this discussion group. I'm not a member, &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">but I've<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">visited about a dozen times so far.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I have been reading about the electric bill issues. I have a watt- <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">hour<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">meter I could let the Noisebridge borrow for a while, so the &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">lights could be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">tested. The meter will calculate the price to run the lights as &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">well,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">because you can program the electricity rate into it.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Separately, has any thought been given to installing a wood pellet &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">stove<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">for heat? The pellets are much less costly per btu than electric &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">heat<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">produced... I think half or a third as much. The pellets can be &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ordered by<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the truck load, and since there is a freight elevator, they can be &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">brought<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">up to the third floor. Another advantage is that the rate per &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">pound goes<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">down when you buy more, not up like with electricity, at least &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that's the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">way residential electricity works... not sure about commercial &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">electricity.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> A single pellet stove will heat the entire Noisebridge to a toasty<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">temperature if desired, and would only have to be filled every few &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">days I<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think. I think the flu can exit through a wall. I have no personal<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">experience with pellet stoves, but I do have experience with wood &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">stoves,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and they produce a LOT of heat... I would guess the heat of 20+ &nbsp;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">electric<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">space heaters when they are burning a full load of wood.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The pellets are about 1/2' long and a 1/4" in diameter.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hope this helps.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Kevin Warnock<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(415) 661-5600<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Blog: <a href="http://KevinWarnock.com">KevinWarnock.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Website: <a href="http://gOffice.com">gOffice.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Shannon Lee<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(503) 539-3700<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>