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    This sounds pretty good, but it does exclude
    potentially-highly-excellent foreign visitors who don't have a
    working US phone number. I think we want there to be *some* sort of
    doorbell. <br>
    <br>
    My personal opinion is that the doorbell (the thing that makes makes
    the annoying nose) should only function from 9a-10p. I think the
    door button shouldn't work at all.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 9/20/2011 16:00, Gian Pablo Villamil wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAN5pc7kR+zuZRHn4Lgy-SyQQLK9cfR4x-2QaGMVTZBp3Y1YrbA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Why not just disable the doorbell entirely?&nbsp;
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>If someone wants to get in, they either a) have a key b) the
        phone number of someone in the space who they know or c) the
        number of the Cisco IP phone. The latter can be easily found by
        going online, and forces interaction with someone (the person
        who answers the phone).
        <div>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>Someone with a track record of proven excellence can be
          given a key - even if they are not a member.<br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:03 PM,
            Casey Callendrello <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:c1@caseyc.net">c1@caseyc.net</a>&gt;</span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
              <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> A few thoughts. I'm
                just brainstorming here, and welcome comment.<br>
                <br>
                First of all, I highly discourage use of the doorbell as
                a regular means of access. I have personally made it
                very easy to open the gate via cellphone, and I have a
                more-secure and even-simpler method in the works. I have
                put my do-ocratic capital where my mouth is, as it were.<br>
                <br>
                What if we disable the doorbell entirely during certain
                hours?<br>
                <br>
                What if we disable the door button? During certain
                hours? To let a guest in, you have to walk down to the
                street, greet them, and open the door.<br>
                <font color="#888888"> <br>
                  --Casey</font>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5"><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    On 09/20/2011 11:49 AM, Ronald Cotoni wrote:
                    <blockquote type="cite">I agree with rubin. &nbsp;This
                      makes a lot of sense and would completely solve
                      this problem and prevent others. &nbsp;On nights like 5
                      minutes of fame, we could just leave the doors
                      open, if neccessary. &nbsp;For other nights and times
                      of the day we could just let people in. &nbsp;I am a
                      bit worried about doors near the elevator since we
                      would need to make sure the 2nd floor people can
                      still get to it and ensuring handicapped access. &nbsp;<br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at
                        9:19 AM, Rameen <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:emprameen@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank">emprameen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                          style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
                          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204,
                          204);padding-left:1ex"> I agree with Rubin,
                          and a lot of other people. <br>
                          <br>
                          Moreover, I'm extremely impressed by everyone
                          who is presenting ideas and contributing. <br>
                          I think it's important to point out, this is a
                          do-ocracy and whatever physical alterations
                          occur in the space, are generally approved by
                          the people who are regularly at the space and
                          actually do stuff. If not, those people tend
                          to un-do those things, because sometimes the
                          public understands what's good for itself. No
                          one owns the space, but we all make it to
                          benefit each other, as well as ourselves. <br>
                          <br>
                          This entire thread is pretty astonishing to
                          me. You guys are amazing!<br>
                          <br>
                          I love Noisebridge a lot, and would be sad if
                          it wasn't as easy for others to access the
                          space as I have been able to. I probably
                          wouldn't have been around to help found the
                          delicious Tastebridge, otherwise!<br>
                          <br>
                          I think we should implement some of the easier
                          solutions, like Rubin's simple (yet powerful)
                          social approach. A change in mentality, as
                          someone sort-of pointed out, could be
                          something to consider-- don't leave your
                          valuable things lying around in a public space
                          for anyone to pick up. It's less likely
                          someone is going to try to wheel your robot
                          out of NB than a phone or slender laptop, and
                          it does happen, but be CAREFUL. Everyone wants
                          the space to be safe and open, but some
                          extreme instances of personal material loss
                          shouldn't be cause to change Noisebridge's
                          radical acceptance policy. Even Jake, who
                          started this thread, has good solutions that
                          won't necessarily compromise a lot of the
                          openness and public excellence that DOES
                          exist!<br>
                          <br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <div>
                              <div>On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 2:56 PM,
                                Rubin Abdi <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:rubin@starset.net"
                                    target="_blank">rubin@starset.net</a>&gt;</span>
                                wrote:<br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204,
                              204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <div> $0.02<br>
                                  <br>
                                  At the old space, 83c, we had a front
                                  door. This door was always locked<br>
                                  on the outside. If someone rang the
                                  doorbell it was up to someone inside<br>
                                  to get up and let them in. In doing so
                                  they would meet the person. It<br>
                                  was great, until people didn't want to
                                  get up every 5 minutes to let<br>
                                  people in. Some of us started handing
                                  out keys to those who seemed smart<br>
                                  and would come by often. Some of us
                                  gave out keys to people we would<br>
                                  meet traveling and seemed smart. This
                                  system worked well, until we moved.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  In another life I worked at a video
                                  game store. Anyone who's done retail<br>
                                  knows the rule about greeting people.
                                  You try to say hi to every single<br>
                                  person who comes in through the front
                                  door before they can have a chance<br>
                                  to look at any merchandise or get to
                                  the front counter, create dialog<br>
                                  with them. All this not to help them
                                  with finding whatever crap it was<br>
                                  that they want, but to make them
                                  understand that people working in the<br>
                                  shop know they're present. It's the
                                  first step in loss prevention, if<br>
                                  you know someone's already spotted you
                                  coming through the front door,<br>
                                  the chances of you stealing something
                                  drastically goes down. Think about<br>
                                  it the next couple of times you walk
                                  into a retail store, even the big<br>
                                  ones will tend to have someone right
                                  at the door to say hi to you.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  We're now at a new space. None of our
                                  doors really have locks. We've got<br>
                                  this crazy system that buzzes people
                                  in without ever really having<br>
                                  someone greet them, might as well just
                                  leave the gate open 24/7. We are<br>
                                  a public space. You walk in, make no
                                  social connection to anyone there,<br>
                                  the things in the space have no ties
                                  to anyone you've met, they're up<br>
                                  for the picking, you take what you
                                  want, you leave.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Those of us here who've stolen goods
                                  (in a past life) know this, this is<br>
                                  how we think. It's harder to steal
                                  from an individual than it is to<br>
                                  steal from a faceless entity.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  In my opinion, lockers acknowledge
                                  that some people feel there's a theft<br>
                                  problem at Noisebridge, and they have
                                  to keep their own personal crown<br>
                                  jewels in a safe, much in the same way
                                  the good liquor and cigarets are<br>
                                  locked inside a glass case. They know
                                  theft is going to happen, they<br>
                                  just don't want it to happen to those
                                  things. Stuff will still get stolen.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  I feel the right solution to this is
                                  to make thieves understand what the<br>
                                  space is, what people are doing in the
                                  space, and that if they are here<br>
                                  for theft, they are stealing from good
                                  people, people active in the<br>
                                  space. That they're aren't simply
                                  walking into a nameless department<br>
                                  store, they're walking into a
                                  community space filled with people
                                  similar<br>
                                  to them.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  My suggestion for a long while has
                                  been to get rid of the automatic buzz<br>
                                  in system, and to put in place locks
                                  to the door at the top of the<br>
                                  stairs and to door off the elevator
                                  room. Part of being in the space is<br>
                                  helping it out right? If people want
                                  to come in you have to let them in.<br>
                                  If you don't feel like letting people
                                  in, don't. The notion of gifting a<br>
                                  key to someone becomes more worth
                                  while again (the act is very much a<br>
                                  symbol outside of The Bay Area to
                                  people who still haven't been to the<br>
                                  space it's like gold, but since we
                                  buzz in everyone, locals don't give a<br>
                                  shit), because you trust that person
                                  enough to give him/her a copy. When<br>
                                  you hold a key, you understand who
                                  hold access to a place that's<br>
                                  accepted you to share it.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  In my experience, fixing social
                                  problems tend to last longer and work<br>
                                  stronger than creating physical
                                  workaround (which are easier to break<br>
                                  and hack, like lockers).<br>
                                  <br>
                                  But then again I've been preaching
                                  this fucking idea for so long with no<br>
                                  one really biting due to laziness to
                                  not really want to getup and answer<br>
                                  the door and a lack of social backbone
                                  to greet new people coming into a<br>
                                  space you share with your community,
                                  at this point I suppose that I must<br>
                                  be the one with the wrong ideas and
                                  concepts here and that I really<br>
                                  don't have any comprehension on how
                                  the mind of thief works...<br>
                                  <font color="#888888"><br>
                                    --<br>
                                    Rubin<br>
                                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:rubin@starset.net"
                                      target="_blank">rubin@starset.net</a><br>
                                    <br>
                                  </font><br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div>_______________________________________________<br>
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                                  href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss"
                                  target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      -- <br>
                      Ronald Cotoni
                      <div>Systems Engineer</div>
                      <br>
                      <pre><fieldset></fieldset>
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</pre>
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                target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
              <br>
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