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    My first thought is that there isn't anyone offering to help.
    Doesn't anyone have a couch that she could occupy for the next few
    days?&nbsp; It is absolutely impossible for me to offer these
    accommodations but I have offered my services in about a week.
    Giving suggestions regarding the best places to sleep outside is
    cold hearted, especially for a group and City that is "progressive".<br>
    <br>
    I agree that Jesse has an abrupt manner and doesn't believe in 2nd
    or 3rd chances. I don't think he believes in chances at all.
    However, I like him for other reasons. Jesse just needs to chill the
    fuck out from time to time.<br>
    <br>
    Many times I have kindly awakened users and let it be known that
    sleeping is not acceptable. The message is well received because it
    is delivered with a smile and some understanding. Sometimes people
    nod off. It happens. Expect a backlash from the offender and others
    if invasive tactics are used to prove how wrong they are.<br>
    <br>
    It's important to consider who the offender is and what kind of
    punishment should be doled. Persecuting someone who is well regarded
    in the community is mutually assured destruction. One should expect
    the same vindication if they ever make an error in judgement.
    Placing a $1000 punishment on a $50 crime is absurd and simply mean.<br>
    <br>
    She has a dilemma right now. We should be focussing on solving the
    problem, which we are all very good at, instead of placing blame.
    One way or another, this can be solved. Everyone can walk away
    happy.<br>
    <br>
    On 06/16/2012 09:51 PM, Ever Falling wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAF67JOQx01j1hcKtRR_Te5jY3uLQUfyVsBKHP2UP9aDChRLWhg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Before making such suggestions please read the back
      log of the many threads about this very topic. It's been made very
      clear that 1) sleeping in the space, whether it be naps or staying
      the night, is not&nbsp;conducive&nbsp;to the purpose of the space which is a
      place to hack, work on projects, and learn. 2) it's against the
      lease of the space to allow people to basically live there. I'm
      not completely familiar with the details but again i'm sure you
      can find where it's been talked about ad nauseum in previous
      threads.<br>
      <br>
      Violette your situation is very unfortunate and I understand your
      dilemma but understand that NB is not a place for sleeping. It's
      just not its purpose. You wouldn't expect to be able to sleep in
      any other place that didn't specifically allow it so I'm not sure
      why you'd figure NB would be ok with it. Just because the space is
      ideally anarchic doesn't mean there aren't still guidelines set
      down by the members and that there aren't still rules that exist
      outside the space that dictate what can happen within it.<br>
      <div><br>
        and honestly with a statement like "(...)
        <span style="">so I decided risking some fat bearded lard waking
          me up with the sound of his unauthorized photography was the
          safest option." I'm not really sure what you feel the need to
          complain about. If you decide to sleep at Noisebridge you're
          gonna have a bad time. Could Jesse, according to your
          description, have handled the situation more graciously? yeah.
          But that's it.</span><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Lord
          Claypool <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:lordclaypool@gmail.com" target="_blank">lordclaypool@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            I think it would be fair to say that the homeless need a
            place to sleep at night and that Noisebridge can provide
            this much desired service. San Fran is a really progressive
            city. In order to maintain this reputation, I think it's our
            responsibility to take this major step forward. They live a
            hard life. They deserve better. <br>
            <br>
            With sincere love,<br>
            Lordth Claypool
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5"><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 6:12
                  PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:algoldor@yahoo.com" target="_blank">algoldor@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <div>
                      <div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:bookman old
                        style,new york,times,serif">
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                          <span>Sounds familiar to me :-)</span></div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt"><span><br>
                          </span></div>
                        <div><span style="font-size:12pt">Noisebridge is
                            one of the worst places to spend night like
                            most of the hackerspaces - they are not&nbsp;</span>designed<span><span
                              style="font-size:12pt">&nbsp;for that&nbsp;</span>purpose<span
                              style="font-size:12pt">, at least not
                              &nbsp;these days. So emergency stay at
                              Noisebridge over the night is not a
                              pleasure, most of the people who have
                              tried knows ...</span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
                            </span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span><span><span
                                  style="font-size:12pt">I would say
                                  that you should try to get a camping
                                  math (groundsheet) and sleeping bag so
                                  you can stay outside during the night
                                  if you have to. This would actually
                                  give you a great flexibility and&nbsp;</span>strengthen<span
                                  style="font-size:12pt">&nbsp;the feeling of
                                  independence/security.&nbsp;You are correct
                                  with the streets, avoid it! Sleep in
                                  the park, I recommend the one around
                                  Mount Sutro I think it is closest safe
                                  spot, I personally love Baker's beach
                                  or Panorama hill at Berkeley. It has
                                  quite nice few&nbsp;</span></span>hidden<span
                                style="font-size:12pt">&nbsp;places and I
                                spend some nice quite nights there,
                                sometimes meeting people who did the
                                same quite for a while, working a
                                regular job during the day and staying
                                on friends couches and parks over the
                                night because of the cost of
                                accommodation around SF. And yes I do
                                realize that it is a bit of bummer for
                                the nature and people who use the parks
                                for the walk etc. but most of the time
                                you are up before they show up and not
                                too many people do this - classical
                                homeless stay close to the source =
                                downtown.</span></span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
                              </span></span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span><span style="font-size:12pt">Have
                                you been considering getting a smaller
                                van/minivan so you would have
                                accommodation/base but with minimal
                                running expenses? Lots of people are
                                doing this. Another one is getting some
                                unused boat for free and pay just
                                docking fee etc (maybe around $200-300
                                per month cheapest).</span></span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
                              </span></span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span><span><span
                                  style="font-size:12pt">Anyway best of
                                  luck, I hope you find some spot to
                                  "call your own" for the stability
                                  purposes it is really great. I highly
                                  recommend to try to avoid staying at
                                  Noisebridge because it would be&nbsp;</span>counterproductive<span
                                  style="font-size:12pt">&nbsp;to your
                                  work/social status in the community,
                                  it is just as it is.</span></span></span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
                              </span></span></span></div>
                        <div><span><span><span style="font-size:12pt">Sincerely,</span></span></span></div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                          &nbsp;</div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">Frantisek
                          Algoldor Apfelbeck<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                          PS I do recommend to leave for the
                          park/camping before 10 pm or so because after
                          that the streets get kind of dodgy and also
                          the police is patrolling and could give you
                          troubles. That was the major reason why I
                          spent some nights at Noisebridge, because I
                          would be working late and it may be not so
                          much fun to get out of Mission around 2 am ...
                          By the way I'm just writing you from "my new
                          shared office" which I am using as a base
                          after close to two month of street life at
                          Seoul :-) and it feels great! (I have even
                          shower in the complex, with kitchen,
                          refrigerator, sounds like heaven to me ...).</div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">biotechnologist&amp;kvasir
                          and hacker</div>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org"
                            target="_blank">http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</a></div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new
                          york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                          "There is no way to peace, peace is the way."
                          Ghandi<br>
                          <br>
                          <div
                            style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'bookman
                            old style','new york',times,serif">
                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial">
                                  <hr size="1"> <b><span
                                      style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
                                  Violette Blumen &lt;<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:lillian.fleurs@gmail.com"
                                    target="_blank">lillian.fleurs@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
                                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:embeddedlinuxguy@gmail.com"
                                    target="_blank">embeddedlinuxguy@gmail.com</a>
                                  <br>
                                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
                                  "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net"
                                    target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>"
                                  &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net"
                                    target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>&gt;;
                                  Mark Meves &lt;<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:mark.meves@gmail.com"
                                    target="_blank">mark.meves@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                                  <br>
                                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                                  Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:31 AM<br>
                                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                                  [Noisebridge-discuss] Sleeping @
                                  Noisebridge [drama]<br>
                                </font> </div>
                              <div>
                                <div> <br>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>To Jesse -</div>
                                    &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;
                                    <div>&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm not entirely sure why
                                      I'm doing this as it will likely
                                      prove to be a futile attempt at
                                      allowing you to see beyond what
                                      might just be on the surface of a
                                      situation. I've seen absolutely no
                                      sign that you have any sort of
                                      human compassion, so trying to
                                      show you a tiny chapter of my life
                                      in order to bring out your
                                      humanity is likely out of blind
                                      faith.
                                      <div>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I haven't been given the
                                        best deck of cards in my life. I
                                        don't see myself as special or
                                        anything because of this, most
                                        people are given a few lemons,
                                        and going into detail with you
                                        about my life isn't quite on my
                                        priority list. Let's just say
                                        certain conditions I have,
                                        haven't allowed for a very easy
                                        transition into adulthood. I'm
                                        currently trying to get myself
                                        out of my current situation,
                                        albeit difficult, by seeking
                                        help and a case worker at Larkin
                                        Street Youth Services. Last
                                        night in fact, I went to their
                                        youth (18-24) housing shelter
                                        (Lark Inn) in order to get a bed
                                        for the night.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>&nbsp; &nbsp; When I arrived there, I
                                        saw a large group of young
                                        adults in similar situations
                                        also trying to get an emergency
                                        bed for the night. Before we can
                                        get more permanent housing,
                                        we're put on this list where we
                                        have to wait as long as 6 weeks.
                                        With the large amount of people
                                        already there, I didn't think I
                                        was going to be getting an
                                        emergency bed for the night. I
                                        went inside anyways while I
                                        waited for them to do a head
                                        count of who was already there.
                                        As soon as I got inside, one of
                                        the workers approached me to say
                                        that my TB test was expired and
                                        I had to get a new one before I
                                        could stay in one of their beds
                                        again. Their clinics would not
                                        be open until Monday, and if I
                                        go at that time I won't get the
                                        results of my test until
                                        Wednesday. What a fucking
                                        bummer. That means I'm not just
                                        out of a bed for last night, I'm
                                        out of a bed until I get the
                                        results of my TB test, and
                                        that's IF I don't test positive.
                                        It didn't seem like a big deal
                                        last night, I usually
                                        have&nbsp;temporary&nbsp;shelter on
                                        friends couches, and the only
                                        reason I'm trying to get a
                                        permanent&nbsp;situation&nbsp;is for the
                                        stability I haven't had my
                                        entire adult life. I rode from
                                        the TL down to Noisebridge so
                                        that I could make some phone
                                        calls to see if any of my
                                        friends were around to give me a
                                        place. I didn't expect to stay
                                        at Noisebridge overnight. I
                                        called and texted all of my
                                        friends with no avail. I
                                        couldn't get a hold of anyone
                                        with a couch for the night. I
                                        then weighed my options. I sure
                                        as hell wasn't going to put
                                        myself in danger on the streets,
                                        so I decided risking some fat
                                        bearded lard waking me up with
                                        the sound of his unauthorized
                                        photography was the safest
                                        option. <br>
                                        <br>
                                        &nbsp; &nbsp;So here's my apologies, sorry
                                        if I'm being a bit too dramatic.
                                        I'm so very sorry I broke the
                                        cardinal rule of the <i><b>Anarchist</b></i>&nbsp;Hackerspace
                                        in order to prevent myself from
                                        getting mugged, raped, attacked
                                        or even killed from sleeping on
                                        the streets. I'm sorry that my
                                        interest in technology died when
                                        I was in high school and that I
                                        lack an attention span that
                                        allows me to enjoy any hobby for
                                        more than a couple of weeks. I'm
                                        sorry I'm not a 1337 h4xx0rrr,
                                        and I'm sorry I found
                                        programming, while relatively
                                        easy, extremely unrewarding,
                                        boring, and mind numbing. I'm
                                        sorry for intruding upon your
                                        culture Jesse, and I'm sorry for
                                        not tolerating bullies with
                                        superiority complexes. Honestly
                                        Jesse, shouting homeless
                                        pejoratives and waving a very
                                        bright light in someone's eyes
                                        while they're minding their own
                                        business on their
                                        computer&nbsp;really says a lot about
                                        your own character.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>To Noisebridge-</div>
                                      <div>Unless Jesse wishes to
                                        discuss this further, it is of
                                        no interest of mine to bring
                                        this up at a meeting. I said
                                        everything I wanted to say right
                                        here.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        -Lillian Fleurs</div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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