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    I love your pup. She looks menacing on appearance but gives great
    love upon contact.<br>
    <br>
    You have my support.<br>
    <br>
    On 09/16/2012 10:15 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:1347858910.45538.YahooMailClassic@web122301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"
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            <td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">There are several
              people here, two of whom were recently "confronted" on
              their dog being at Noisebridge, who bring their dog with
              them because they do not have anyone to watch their dog
              for them, and are not allowed to leave the dog at home
              unsupervised. Their dog has been quiet, friendly, and has
              not caused a mess. Yes, the dog is large, but usually just
              sits under the table. On one occasion, the dog did whine,
              but that was because she did see me walk into the space
              and wanted to say hello.<br>
              <br>
              However, the original poster stated the problem as if each
              and every large dog is a vicious man-killer just waiting
              to go off. Suddenly, the subject switched to breathing
              issues. And yes, if a person "can't breathe" due to a dog
              being present, then their allergies or asthma will be
              severe enough to be similarly affected by dust and other
              animal dander, not to mention chemical fumes.<br>
              <br>
              - Mik McAllister<br>
              <br>
              --- On <b>Sun, 9/16/12, Gopiballava Flaherty <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gopiballava@gmail.com"><gopiballava@gmail.com></a></i></b>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
                255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>
                From: Gopiballava Flaherty <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gopiballava@gmail.com"><gopiballava@gmail.com></a><br>
                Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Dogs<br>
                To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
                Date: Sunday, September 16, 2012, 9:35 PM<br>
                <br>
                <div class="plainMail"><br>
                  On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Mitchel McAllister <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    ymailto="mailto:xonimmortal@yahoo.com"
                    href="/mc/compose?to=xonimmortal@yahoo.com">xonimmortal@yahoo.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  > I have yet to see anyone who has a problem
                  breathing around dogs actually weigh in on this
                  subject. It's hard to gauge how many people are
                  affected this way, if none of them actually speak up.<br>
                  <br>
                  My wife no longer goes to NB because of the dogs.<br>
                  <br>
                  I think we need to hear from somebody who brings their
                  dog to NB, or who feels the *personal* desire to have
                  dogs there - not merely people defending the rights of
                  others to bring dogs.<br>
                  <br>
                  We *know* that there are some people who have problems
                  going to NB due to dogs. I think we need to
                  understand, from the people who want to bring their
                  dogs there, how much this would inconvenience them or
                  how much less pleasant their hacking experience would
                  be.<br>
                  <br>
                  (I'm not being facetious - I've never owned a dog, so
                  I am not good at understanding the emotional or
                  practical issues of how you feel about having your dog
                  with your or about how most people cope with the fact
                  that dogs are banned in many places.)<br>
                  <br>
                  > I am allergic to dust and pet dander. My sinuses
                  are also irritated by certain chemical fumes. However,
                  that is *my* problem, not Noisebridge's.<br>
                  <br>
                  So: Noisebridge should not do anything to make the
                  space more suited for anybody? Ever? Of course not.
                  There has to be balance.<br>
                  <br>
                  I think that comparing the fumes and chemicals emitted
                  by hacking to the allergens emitted by dogs is an
                  unreasonable comparison. Noisebridge is a
                  *hackerspace*. There will be the airborne results of
                  hacking, or else it will be an *extremely* limited
                  hacking space.<br>
                  <br>
                  Dogs and other (non-service) companion animals make
                  the place more pleasant for some hackers, but they
                  aren't related to the core purpose of the space.<br>
                  <br>
                  Here's a thought experiment: If somebody started
                  hacking with a chemical that made, say, 1/3 of people
                  gag but 2/3 of people didn't even notice, would that
                  be acceptable? (Assuming it was not killing people of
                  course). I'd like to think that it would be something
                  that needed long discussion and would have a high
                  chance of being severely restricted because chasing
                  people away is really not very excellent.<br>
                  <br>
                  Where would you draw the line? That's the question.
                  But I really think there is a line between letting
                  people do anything they want, and not chasing people
                  away.<br>
                  <br>
                  > I am not going to demand that Noisebridge
                  implement twice-daily cleanings to take care of dust.<br>
                  <br>
                  No, and neither is anybody else. Just because somebody
                  can demand that you take *unreasonable* measures to
                  accommodate their needs doesn't mean that you should
                  do *nothing*.<br>
                  <br>
                  > Yes, I, a person allergic to dog dander, am
                  defending the presence of dogs in the space. I made
                  the decision a long time ago to cope with it, because
                  I enjoy the presence of dogs and other furry
                  creatures.<br>
                  <br>
                  You are aware that some people are more allergic than
                  yourself, yes?<br>
                  <br>
                  > You also completely disregarded my point
                  regarding the presence of other allergens in the space
                  which exceeds the quantity of dog allergens in the
                  space. I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt
                  and assume that was inadvertent. I look forward to
                  seeing you correct this lapse.<br>
                  <br>
                  You made an assertion, not a point. You surely know
                  that people can have different levels of allergic
                  reactions to different compounds, yes? Quantity
                  doesn't matter as much as reaction level.<br>
                  <br>
                  You also seem to be implying that banning dogs would
                  not significantly help dog-allergic people because the
                  dust is terrible enough to keep them out. Is that
                  correct? If that is what you are claiming, and it's
                  true, then really no further discussion is needed on
                  the topic. However, I don't think you're right for
                  most dog-allergic people.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
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