<p dir="ltr">Liz.<br>
"One of these email exchanges"and "several people" is some particular wording. Please relate to the list how this is the only email exchange and these are the only two people; it looks like you have an agenda otherwise.</p>

<p dir="ltr">Now I wrote a tipsy email I to someone I had plenty of communication with that could respect the rather confused person's better, yes. But seeing this, you persisted in presenting that /email/ as me not knowing to stop touching when there is a "no" (and there was only hugs the night in question as witnessed by Kim and Dante) *is an entirely different thing*</p>

<p dir="ltr">Ah: "confused person", may I note how hard it is to tie these two things together: I'd like you to see if there is one indication of me bringing Lillian's sexuality into question. No? Then let's look at that one email exchange you just posted. Does it say that he is confused? Yes. Tying femininity with sexuality or gender is being mightily confused.</p>

<p dir="ltr">So gaslighting. I can see how that email exchange could be seen as inappropriate out of the context of the rather long discussions he and I have had since we met a year ago, and hey, maybe if you and I had talked about that, or mediated around that, this show would not have piloted. But repeated pattern?<br>

Hardly; in this thread, one I have to answer to for my own protection, I've been asking for clarification, always accepting without question Lillian's version of events, and have wound up at a scene where a 6'1' MtF transperson screams in a terrified voice "what the fuck are you doing" in nb, and no-one even peeps their head in the door. Oh, and her pants stayed on once it became clear that her removing her pants just messes up her claim.</p>

<p dir="ltr">This is not "gaslighting" Liz, its someone who is honest being open about a situation with someone who is parodying a sexual assault case; I encourage you to read Lillian's latest on this list; it's exemplary.</p>

<p dir="ltr">I'm actually surprised that the person who could have--through emails--abjured the need for me to limelight the facts of the matter is the one who is blaming me for my defense. What is, of course, inexcusable, is those who bang the drum of sexual assault, though they have all the evidence to the contrary.</p>

<p dir="ltr">As I said to you right away, I'm open to immediate mediation on this subject; you seem to be an advocate rather than a mediator, and finding someone to advocate for Lillian is what has been holding back the process. </p>

<p dir="ltr">-dru<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 23, 2013 9:16 AM, "Liz Henry" <<a href="mailto:lizhenry@gmail.com">lizhenry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hey there.  I had offered to bring up the accusations against Dru at a meeting and to talk with him about his perception of what had happened.   I asked Dru not to contact Dante and not to do any sort of massage/medical/energy work in the space.  Then, I missed some meetings, then I brought it up at a meeting but it was at the end of a long difficult meeting. then I got the flu and then went out of town for a week during which Carl stepped up to say he would try to move the issue forward at a meeting.  I hoped that at the least, bringing it up at the meeting would let people know there is an issue, they should use caution, and their own judgment about it in the meantime. <br>


<br>From talking with Dru and from various email exchanges I I did not feel that he had understood some of the ways that he disrespects interpersonal boundaries.   While he would agree with my statements on the surface, he continued to sexualise Dante and Lilian, to bring up things they did, said, or that he feels they "are" in ways that directly contradict Dante and LIlian's statements, and to explain his own sexuality to me and his attractions to other people. He wants to frame his interactions with them as them being confused about their own sexuality, and as immature for not understanding themselves.  And from Dru's point of view Dante and Lillian are "trolling". <br>


<br>The other pattern that emerged on communication was that when a boundary is set, Dru will immediately go over it,  and then gaslight the boundary-setter. In this case, then the people who have asserted their boundaries get angry. Their angry responses are then used by Dru as evidence that they are irrational. That is a horrible communication pattern.<br>


<br>I am NOT saying that therefore, Dru is a rapist!  I am saying that therefore, Dru is very difficult to communicate with and it is hard to extend any social trust to him .  I am sorry that sounds complicated. <br>
<br>I can't agree with Dru's responses in any way.  His responses were weird and perturbing. I didn't want to publish them to the list because they had so many more attacks on Dante and Lilian and others that it didn't seem quite right.   Personally  I do not want to engage any further with Dru. I don't trust him, and I would be quite happy to ask him not to come back to Noisebridge.  <br>


<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">One of the email exchanges that shows this pattern is included below as an example. <br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">

Now, I would like to also say that my attempt to give a layer of privacy to the several people who complained,  backfired and the first time I wasn't able to go to a meeting to bring this up, I should have found a responsible person to do it.  So a bunch of the delay is my fault. I am sorry about that.<br>

<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">- Liz<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br><br><br><br><br>>>>>><br><br>

<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">
<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:bold">Forwarded conversation</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Subject: </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:bold">Last minute salon invite</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">------------------------</span></p>


<br><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">


<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">From: </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:bold">Andrew Byrne</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"> <<a href="mailto:andrew@pachakutech.com" target="_blank">andrew@pachakutech.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:03 PM</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">To: Dante Cassius <<a href="mailto:exaltedunmelody@gmail.com" target="_blank">exaltedunmelody@gmail.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">A
 client of mine is hosting a Salon. There is talking, art, drinking, 
eating, philosophizing && The title 'digital femininity' made me
 think of you.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">It is tonight, Wednesday the 24th in the mission.</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">----------</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">From: </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:bold">Dante Cassius</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"> <<a href="mailto:exaltedunmelody@gmail.com" target="_blank">exaltedunmelody@gmail.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Date: Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:06 PM</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">To: Andrew Byrne <<a href="mailto:andrew@pachakutech.com" target="_blank">andrew@pachakutech.com</a>></span></p>


<br><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><br>
<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">


<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">I'm
 going to be honest dude, the fact that you keep referring to me as 
feminine on multiple occasions especially combined with the way you were
 touching me during energy work at noisebridge is making me extremely 
uncomfortable.</span></p><br><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">


<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">----------</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">From: </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:bold">Andrew Byrne</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"> <<a href="mailto:andrew@pachakutech.com" target="_blank">andrew@pachakutech.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 5:08 AM</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">To: Dante Cassius <<a href="mailto:exaltedunmelody@gmail.com" target="_blank">exaltedunmelody@gmail.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Aiight
 dude, just because you publicly identify as fem doesn't mean that's how
 I should regard you. Fair. Fair. I'm actually into giving rope to the 
willing, so  you can say you are a pineapple, and I'd still think the 
same of you, waiting for you to mature into a sexual being...</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">... I'll never regard you as the fem, ever again, if you like. Know that I see fem in everyone though...</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Touching.</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">I
 felt a lot of things from you that day. Unless you want to explore 
those elements of yourself, I'd keep our relationship to a boyish regard
 if I were you. Alternatively, I'd enjoy experiencing our bodies 
together, but maybe that's out of your comprehension. Know that I hold 
you in exquisite regard either way.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">----------</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">From: </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:bold">Dante Cassius</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"> <<a href="mailto:exaltedunmelody@gmail.com" target="_blank">exaltedunmelody@gmail.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:47 AM</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">To: Andrew Byrne <<a href="mailto:andrew@pachakutech.com" target="_blank">andrew@pachakutech.com</a>></span></p>


<br><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><br>
<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">


<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">What the fuck?</span></p>


<br><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">


<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">I
 DON'T publicly identify as fem. Quite the opposite and I've said so 
several times. Now you want to act like I was coming on to YOU, or 
something, when I've never thought of us as anything but friends.</span></p><br><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">


<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">For
 future reference, by the way, if someone tells you you're making them 
uncomfortable? You fucking APOLOGIZE and then STOP. You don't sit there 
and tell me I was coming on to you and in denial about it. I'd say "fuck
 you" but you'd probably take that as a come-on, so go die in a fire you
 creepy prick.</span></p><br><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">


<span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">----------</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">From: </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:bold">Andrew Byrne</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal"> <<a href="mailto:andrew@pachakutech.com" target="_blank">andrew@pachakutech.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Date: Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:29 PM</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">To: Dante Cassius <<a href="mailto:exaltedunmelody@gmail.com" target="_blank">exaltedunmelody@gmail.com</a>></span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">Lol, rly?</span></p>


<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-size:19px;background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-weight:normal">You are a confused child, and conflating too many points for me to assume you are arguing in good faith.</span></p>


<br><br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Yan Zhu <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yan@mit.edu" target="_blank">yan@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hi all, <br><br>I unfortunately could not make it to the meeting last Tuesday, but it seems that an accurate summary of the decision there is that Carl and Kevin are designated mediators between Drew and the accusing parties. The <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_06_18" target="_blank">meeting notes</a> do not indicate whether there are deadlines for the mediation process to start/end or whether any part of the mediation process has to be executed transparently. <br>


<br></div>Although mediation seems fair and reasonable, I can completely understand how someone can get the impression that Noisebridge hasn't given the situation the attention it deserves just from reading the meeting notes. At the very least, I would like answers to: <br>


</div>* Has the mediation process started already? <br></div><div>* If so, what has been done? If not, are there ways in which we can expedite the process? <br></div><div><br></div>Given that this is a high-priority issue for not only the involved parties but also any Noisebridge community members who care about creating a safe, respectful space, it would be distressing to me to see "mediation" treated as a black box that eventually solves things. Mainly I'm concerned about the process taking an indefinite amount of time and making the people who have been hurt feel like their emotions are being ignored. <br>


<br></div>Thanks,<br>Yan<br><div><br><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Lillian Fleurs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lillian.fleurs@gmail.com" target="_blank">lillian.fleurs@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>


</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="ltr">I mean really? Mediation? For a potential RAPIST.<br><br>What the fuck is wrong with you guys? It's not like I'll ever be back there anyways, I have my own life elsewhere. But WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS? You'd happily go into a space with a rapist who hacks but won't go into one with a few harmless homeless kid who use the kitchen? You guys have some SERIOUS fucking moral issues you need to sort out.</div>



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<br></div></blockquote></div><span><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Yan Zhu<br><a href="http://web.mit.edu/zyan/www/" target="_blank">http://web.mit.edu/zyan/www/</a>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><br>.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .<br>Liz Henry<br></div><a href="mailto:lhenry@mozilla.com" target="_blank">lhenry@mozilla.com</a><br>

<a href="mailto:lizhenry@gmail.com" target="_blank">lizhenry@gmail.com</a><br></div>
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