[Rack] [Noisebridge-discuss] RFID tag research (was: Problem: people seeing NB as a backup shelter)
gregorydillon at gmail.com
Sat May 10 19:11:09 UTC 2014
Would keycodes that expire in one, two, or three days be practical
programatically? If so, a class or event could give out keycodes for
the day, and the attendees might feel more like they have a special
invitation and are more part of the scene.
On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>wrote:
> I have objections about temporary cards, mostly due to the difficulty of
> disbursing and maintaining these sorts of things for one-time use... and I
> think "access for the day" should still be done the way we are (or should
> be) doing it now, which is by having an associate member vouch for a
> visitor by simply letting them in and keeping track of them. But anyway, we
> can discuss this in person.
> 11ish it is! See you then.
> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>> On 9 May 2014 23:33, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thank you so much for going ahead and making these donations! I would
>>> like to help out with installation, programming, whatever I can do -
>>> although I'm not too familiar with this sort of hardware,
>> Me neither, but that is the fun of it :) As long as there are cables to
>> solder and protocols to analyze it is cool.
>>> and while I can program in whatever language is necessary, I've never
>>> set up anything having to do with this sort of automation.
>> From there, automation is simple.
>>> On the topic of automation, the *unofficial* consensus is that these
>>> readers could only be activated at a certain time, but inactive at times of
>>> high traffic.
>> Sounds doable. The door would just have a DC electric strike that is open
>> over the day. At other times, it locks and can only be activated with the
>>> Do you have ideas about who can be granted these NFC cards? I believe
>>> they should only be granted to associate or full members, as the benefit of
>>> being an associate member is the ability to be in the space without a
>>> sponsor. (That means if you're not one, you might want to start fishing for
>>> sponsorships on a wiki user page.)
>> Yes, full/associate members should get cards, but they can as well be
>> temporarily given out to people or associated for given times. It can as
>> well be cheap as anyone with another NFC card (e.g. a clipper card) could
>> be associated with the system (that way it is simple to grant some random
>> person with a sponsor at the place access for the day. With even further
>> ideas: someone with a sponsor has access for the day as long as the sponsor
>> has not 'checked out' with her card. A lot of door-keeping is not done
>> properly because it is so annoying. This could make it simple).
>> I am not really any of these new member categories, but might as well get
>> started ( Hello, old-term hackers that are all gone from NB now :( but
>> still know me, please sponsor me :)
>> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/User:Hzeller )
>>> The problem, of course, is that you're going to get major pushback and
>>> this entire project is going to be branded as "unexcellent" if you don't
>>> get the support you need.
>> Yeah, I'll check the waters on next meeting. I can't think that anyone
>> would be against a simplified and better access control, but then again, I
>> know this mailing list.
>>> People will certainly go so far as to dismantle the system if they don't
>>> agree with it. I think you should involve the Security Working Group,
>>> pending a future meeting, whenever that is.
>>> In the meantime, I'm willing to meet up to discuss this. I'm available
>>> midday tomorrow, around 11 to 3. I'd be happy to show up at the space to
>>> discuss a plan of action.
>> Sounds good. I think I'll show up around 11:00ish as well.
>>> (P.S.: in response to your email in the other thread... regardless of
>>> who's at the space or how safe it is, I still wouldn't leave my stuff
>>> there... or anywhere like NB, for that matter.)
>> Yeah, I know. But I'd expect to have at least stuff on a member-shelf
>> without random people rummaging through it. Well or find a soldering iron
>> if needed :/
>>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>>> Alright, as discussed in the other thread, lets install RFID readers
>>>> for physical access control to Noisebridge to address one of the problems
>>>> we have right now: simple access for members/associate members (or whatever
>>>> these are called nowadays). Initially at the top door, later as well at the
>>>> front door (in parallel to physical key and keypad).
>>>> I have researched the space a bit. For one, we have a 950Mhz reader and
>>>> a couple of tags. The experiments with these (
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/RFID ) had some trouble getting the
>>>> actual device ID, only the re-writeable part (which made them hard to use a
>>>> non-forgeable entry keys). These tags might actually be really useful to
>>>> make sure that tools and stuff don't 'vanish'.
>>>> So what else is there, in particular used for entry systems:
>>>> 125kHz tags exist, are very simple and allow to give out an ID. They
>>>> are pretty cheap (~30cent for a credit-card size). Their use is limited and
>>>> cannot be re-written.
>>>> Most promising I think is the NFC range of 13.57Mhz. These cards are as
>>>> well pretty cheap (~30cent each at first look on ebay; other form-factors
>>>> such as stickers exist). They come in ranges of capabilities: they all have
>>>> a unique ID and allow to write data to it (from 64 byte up to a couple of
>>>> kB). More higher end cards have encryption on-board. One of the great
>>>> advantages (IMHO) is, that most common smart-phones now come with an NFC
>>>> reader which would allow for some simple hacking. We can start with a
>>>> simple scheme by just reading the ID (which is more level security than we
>>>> need at NB), but playing with the memory for more things (changing random
>>>> number on each entry, or a section with your PGP public key..).
>>>> Anyway, unless there are good technical objections to using these kind
>>>> of NFC cards, I am doocratically ordering a bunch of these 13.57Mhz cards
>>>> and get readers and start playing; I'll donate them to NB.
>>>> (Anyone has 13.57Mhz cards lying around already?)
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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Let's stay in touch. Greg
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