[Rack] [Noisebridge-discuss] RFID tag research (was: Problem: people seeing NB as a backup shelter)

Jeffrey Carl Faden jeffreyatw at gmail.com
Sat May 10 19:53:42 UTC 2014


It's certainly possible. You could even fork this and provide a pull
request.
https://github.com/noisebridge/noisebridge-baron

But any time at which an event is in progress seems like a time at which
the door (and gate, probably) should just be unlocked, so I'm not sure of
the utility.


On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Gregory Dillon <gregorydillon at gmail.com>wrote:

> Would keycodes that expire in one, two, or three days be practical
> programatically?     If so, a class or event could give out keycodes for
> the day, and the attendees might feel more like they have a special
> invitation and are more part of the scene.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I have objections about temporary cards, mostly due to the difficulty of
>> disbursing and maintaining these sorts of things for one-time use... and I
>> think "access for the day" should still be done the way we are (or should
>> be) doing it now, which is by having an associate member vouch for a
>> visitor by simply letting them in and keeping track of them. But anyway, we
>> can discuss this in person.
>>
>> 11ish it is! See you then.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9 May 2014 23:33, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for going ahead and making these donations! I would
>>>> like to help out with installation, programming, whatever I can do -
>>>> although I'm not too familiar with this sort of hardware,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Me neither, but that is the fun of it :) As long as there are cables to
>>> solder and protocols to analyze it is cool.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  and while I can program in whatever language is necessary, I've never
>>>> set up anything having to do with this sort of automation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> From there, automation is simple.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On the topic of automation, the *unofficial* consensus is that these
>>>> readers could only be activated at a certain time, but inactive at times of
>>>> high traffic.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds doable. The door would just have a DC electric strike that is
>>> open over the day. At other times, it locks and can only be activated with
>>> the reader.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you have ideas about who can be granted these NFC cards? I believe
>>>> they should only be granted to associate or full members, as the benefit of
>>>> being an associate member is the ability to be in the space without a
>>>> sponsor. (That means if you're not one, you might want to start fishing for
>>>> sponsorships on a wiki user page.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, full/associate members should get cards, but they can as well be
>>> temporarily given out to people or associated for given times. It can as
>>> well be cheap as anyone with another NFC card (e.g. a clipper card) could
>>> be associated with the system (that way it is simple to grant some random
>>> person with a sponsor at the place access for the day. With even further
>>> ideas: someone with a sponsor has access for the day as long as the sponsor
>>> has not 'checked out' with her card. A lot of door-keeping is not done
>>> properly because it is so annoying. This could make it simple).
>>>
>>> I am not really any of these new member categories, but might as well
>>> get started ( Hello, old-term hackers that are all gone from NB now :( but
>>> still know me, please sponsor me :)
>>> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/User:Hzeller )
>>>
>>>
>>>> The problem, of course, is that you're going to get major pushback and
>>>> this entire project is going to be branded as "unexcellent" if you don't
>>>> get the support you need.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I'll check the waters on next meeting. I can't think that anyone
>>> would be against a simplified and better access control, but then again, I
>>> know this mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>>> People will certainly go so far as to dismantle the system if they
>>>> don't agree with it. I think you should involve the Security Working Group,
>>>> pending a future meeting, whenever that is.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, I'm willing to meet up to discuss this. I'm available
>>>> midday tomorrow, around 11 to 3. I'd be happy to show up at the space to
>>>> discuss a plan of action.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds good. I think I'll show up around 11:00ish as well.
>>>
>>> -h
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>
>>>> (P.S.: in response to your email in the other thread... regardless of
>>>> who's at the space or how safe it is, I still wouldn't leave my stuff
>>>> there... or anywhere like NB, for that matter.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know. But I'd expect to have at least stuff on a member-shelf
>>> without random people rummaging through it. Well or find a soldering iron
>>> if needed :/
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Alright, as discussed in the other thread, lets install RFID readers
>>>>> for physical access control to Noisebridge to address one of the problems
>>>>> we have right now: simple access for members/associate members (or whatever
>>>>> these are called nowadays). Initially at the top door, later as well at the
>>>>> front door (in parallel to physical key and keypad).
>>>>>
>>>>> I have researched the space a bit. For one, we have a 950Mhz reader
>>>>> and a couple of tags. The experiments with these (
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/RFID ) had some trouble getting the
>>>>> actual device ID, only the re-writeable part (which made them hard to use a
>>>>> non-forgeable entry keys). These tags might actually be really useful to
>>>>> make sure that tools and stuff don't 'vanish'.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what else is there, in particular used for entry systems:
>>>>>
>>>>> 125kHz tags exist, are very simple and allow to give out an ID. They
>>>>> are pretty cheap (~30cent for a credit-card size). Their use is limited and
>>>>> cannot be re-written.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most promising I think is the NFC range of 13.57Mhz. These cards are
>>>>> as well pretty cheap (~30cent each at first look on ebay; other
>>>>> form-factors such as stickers exist). They come in ranges of capabilities:
>>>>> they all have a unique ID and allow to write data to it (from 64 byte up to
>>>>> a couple of kB). More higher end cards have encryption on-board. One of the
>>>>> great advantages (IMHO) is, that most common smart-phones now come with an
>>>>> NFC reader which would allow for some simple hacking. We can start with a
>>>>> simple scheme by just reading the ID (which is more level security than we
>>>>> need at NB), but playing with the memory for more things (changing random
>>>>> number on each entry, or a section with your PGP public key..).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, unless there are good technical objections to using these kind
>>>>> of NFC cards, I am doocratically ordering a bunch of these 13.57Mhz cards
>>>>> and get readers and start playing; I'll donate them to NB.
>>>>> (Anyone has 13.57Mhz cards lying around already?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Henner
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
>
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