[Tastebridge] [Noisebridge-discuss] take it easy, it is just an another situation to learn from
algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org
algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org
Thu Apr 21 14:04:18 PDT 2011
Greetings to all!
I think that Rubin's email is kind of saying what I mean, some of his
suggestions are very "fresh ones" but that is the reason why I like
them. He uses open approach, with hammer in his hand sometimes but
I send close emails to people if I think that it is better to discuss
things with them first off the list, it is a usual practice done by
many Noisebridge members who I value. I do not have a problem if
someone posts my emails, I hope I'm clear here. To be absolutely
honest I meant to send it to discuss too but I've failed, not for the
I do express my opinion if I do not agree with something. I'm trying
not to let things happen if I believe it is not a good idea. Your post
saying basically "I'm closing the donation box if you want a key you
can talk to me" without discussing this option on Noisebridge or
Tastebridge mailing list is not as good as it could be. It is not just
me who is not at SF just right now, Fabian, Benni, Josh and others are
now also away and I think that they should have a chance to say what
they think about it too.
Concerning where the money stays. I've found that to have larger
quantities of money out of sight works fine because as I've said
before "no temptation". Think of Noisebridge in a larger scale, most
of the time no keys to donation bins and no large amounts of money in
them, money sits somewhere safe. It seems to me fine and it works. If
there are for the last few months locks on the jars I hope it is just
temporary and I doubt there are on all donation bins in the space.
If my comments are not welcomed I'm sorry but I do believe this is an
important matter and I really hope that another than "lock them out"
option is going to be used. I should maybe not use the phrasing that I
do not want to interfere, my fault, sorry. I do want to interfere.
I think that you take this personally. I can ensure you that if Mitch
posted that he wants to lock the Tastebridge donation bin I would ask
him to try another solution.
If I did not make you realise what I'm talking about I'm sorry. I've
tried but your points of view on this matter may be too different, we
should wait and see what the community thinks of it. If they are fine
with closed box I'll be not particularly happy but I think that I can
live with it.
Peace and love,
PS If you think that the tricks which I've used to secure the budget
for Tastebridge would not work now because of what ever reasons (time,
amount of people involved etc.) try something else. All what I ask is
to leave the box closure as the last possible solution.
I for one see this as a message from a higher being, telling us that
kombucha is a source of evil that will eventually consume Noisebridge in
a fury of fermented tea and bacteria growth that has the consistency of ham.
OR there are a growing number of interesting people inhabiting
(infesting?) the space that no one has stopped to inform them who we
are, what we do, and how we operate as a group.
Note 1: Noisebridge operates well when it isn't taken advantage of.
Note 2: It's easy to take advantage of something when you don't
understand (or when no one has introduced you to the concept).
rubin at starset.net
Please explain something to me: In your opinion, what is the
difference between having somebody take the money home (a treasurer)
and having a box in the space that anyone may have a key to? It's also
a little hard to take your talk of openness seriously when it's only
happening in closed emails.
You're not just interfering, you're trying to run the show, and it's
not unwelcome. Please stop.
P.S.: Thanks for the offer, but we've already got a hook-up through Om
Shan Tea House, so I think we'll be alright.
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:32 AM, <algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org> wrote:
Most support which we got from people to start the project and to
keep it running was given by people who are directly against charging
fees for classes because of the openness of Noisebridge and strongly
arguing against any locked boxes which have appeared quite recently
and were unwelcome by many. It is just as it is, good or bad doesn't
matter, I take it as a fact.
It is hard for me to know how Tastebridge is doing because there
are close to no posts on the Tastebrige webpages or on the discuss
lists. I've lowered the amount of my posts partly because I wanted to
create more space for others to go ahead. And yes also because it
takes a hell of time to keep thing like this alive and vibrant and
I've my limitations.
I do understand that people have different amounts of time, again
that is fact. I've just been trying to remind ways which we have used
before to get money and which worked. We have been loosing money on
donations before as Noisebridge did. It is not a new thing. I just
strongly feel that the gain from having it open over weight the amount
of money loosed if managed well.
Concerning the openness of access that is questionable. After
doing this for a while I've still always open box on my events and
during my activities. I think it is not just cool, it works at least
for me and I hoped it could be sustainable for Tastebridge too. I just
do not think that this system is necessary.
I've expressed my opinion, that is all what I can do now so I do
not interfere too much.
If you take the road of locked system, so be it but I would love
to see another solution how to keep the budget in plus numbers and
donation box open. If you feel that the time constrain is too big, I
would understand of course. However taking money on regular basis has
the advantage of not tempting too much. I think that to see $5 and $50
lying on a table is for many people different grade of temptation.
PS Please do not feel harmed that is certainly not an intention
of my comments. However I've a strong view on some things and that is
one of the reason why I'm able to get support to do things from some
people and quite gaining quite nothing from others.
PS II. It may be that I'll apply in the future the closed box
system too, but I hope I'll not have to. I would have to be strongly
forced to do so. It may be hard to explain but this is one of the
things which is important for me and for the projects which I run.
PS III. I may ask Three Stone Hearths if they would be OK to make
some order for us for whole sale prices. They would not be probably
very happy about it mostly because it would complicate their
Quoting Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>:
It's not a matter of people not donating - on the contrary,
we've been doing
fine just with the weekly kombucha and a little food here and
there - it's a
matter of us having very deliberately *not* having locked
away or removed
any funds, exactly because no one wants to have to make any
detract from the openness of our community, and someone then
advantage of that openness.
Don't see the principal difference between a treasurer
removing the money
and a locked box in the fridge that anyone can get keys and
access to? It
wouldn't be the only donation box in the space with a lock on
Stocks have been managed better than you might expect - we're
on the last of what you bought just before you left. I thank
you for the
advice, but while I appreciate that Tastebridge was your full-time
occupation, none of us currently have that option, and I
can't help but feel
a little hurt by the implication that it can't function any
other way. I
think we've been doing really well, all things considered.
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck
<algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
I understand your frustration but I really strongly feel
donation box solution is not a good solution, the project
would be harmed
considerably. There is a very strong part of Noisebridge
which is against
locking anything within the community. In this case I
think that distance
doesn't matter, another solution should be applied.
I do not know strategies what are the current Tastebridge
accumulate resources and I've not seen any numbers being
of how do we do but based on previous experience:
- the Tuesday member dinner worked fine and donations
were collected and
counted directly so no problem there, just leave few
dollars in the box
- the underground markets are hard to prepare for but it
is an amazing way
how to get resources too and again fully controlled with
no strings attached
- other option which helped before is send an email to
the community to ask
for resources for the brewing program to continue (I can do that)
- of course taking out money on regular bases should work
fine if some one
is around to do so. I bet someone trusty even not
affiliated to Tastebridge
would do it. Again leaving $1-10 in the donation box and
having the donation
box on as much stable position worked fine for months.
I'm sending this to you in person so you can think about
that. If you go
this way you will loose more than you gain and I'll have
to comment on this
because this was, is and will be one of the fundamental
Tastebridge - open as much as possible. People who
supported Tastebridge in
the past are mostly strongly against the locking
solutions. I know that very
well and yes I'm one of them too and there are very
strong reasons for that.
So please try to take care about that in a different
manner I do not have a
problem to write to some folks to try to get some
resources. Once the
ingredients are bought they last quite a while if managed
well. I think the
major problem is the money management, someone has to be
Tastebridge and really take care about it. I'm using
Tastebridge as a
concept where ever I go and it works but it is not easy
sometimes but I
deeply feel it is worth it.
If it happens that Tastebridge in Noisebridge will become
inactive that is
life. I'll and many others will be sorry but I'll
continue to promote the
idea somewhere else and I'll revive it once in San
Francisco again it will
take just a little bit longer than if it was kept running.
Best of luck and enjoy the "painful thorns" of the beauty
of the open
PS I'm going to post very short note asking you to
reconsider, if you want
post this email that is absolutely fine do so preferably
to both lists.
*From:* Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>
*To:* Tastebridge <tastebridge at lists.noisebridge.net>;
noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net;
biobridge at lists.noisebridge.net
*Sent:* Thu, April 21, 2011 9:01:46 AM
*Subject:* [Noisebridge-discuss] The Mystery of the
Amanda and I have bottled yet another batch of kombucha
for y'all to enjoy
- they're currently sitting on the Tastebridge shelf,
Am much dismayed to note, however, that the Tastebridge
donation jar (the
small screw top one we keep our funds in) currently
contains only $9.00 (6
of which were put in tonight, and down from ~$35.00 on
Monday night) -
nowhere near enough to replenish our almost depleted
stock of tea and sugar
(base ingredients). This basically means that we've got
barely enough for
another batch, and won't be able to make any more unless
reappears. I'll immediately take the (painful!) step of
putting a locked box
in the fridge for kombucha donations - anyone who feels
they should have a
key can ask me for one.
Sorry folks, but this really sucks. Please help me make
sure this doesn't
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