[Tastebridge] lactobacilli fermented soda recipe

Nevada M. bramble.greenbrier at gmail.com
Thu Nov 10 13:23:46 PST 2011

Yeah, I guess that's a good point....  I definitely haven't tested the soda
to positively identify the bacteria present, but it is definitely not
(significantly) alcoholic, so it would probably be better just to call it
probiotic soda.


On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hi Nevada and all,
> Nice, nice, nice! I went quickly through the manual and I added some
> comments/suggestions here below. I'm tired after the work (hard manual
> labor :-(() so it is not very extensive.
> I just would to point out how sure are you if these are lactobacillus
> species which are present? If you leave the culture start in the wild
> manner, as you describe in the manual, it would be hard to actually
> say/predict what cultures are going to "colonize" and possibly gain
> dominance in the brew (if not identified experimentally). I know that
> Sandor Katz likes this approach a lot for his ferments, he generally
> stresses the "wild origin" of the brew underlining that multiple organisms
> may be involved. It may be good idea to alter the name a bit so it doesn't
> refer to lactobacilli specifically to avoid confusion because these species
> may be and may be not present (you talk about that a bit in the basics,
> concerning the molds etc.). Maybe something like "probiotic soda recipe"
> etc. (it may not be probiotic if "wrong culture" take hold but it may be
> more forgiving name). Anyway that would be my suggestion from point of view
> of nomenclature.
> I also would like to point out that you can go up to 11% (w/v) of honey
> without worrying about the disturbance of fermentation/life cycle of
> various probiotic organisms. I've been experimenting with this for several
> years (in Tastebridge too) and the final flavor of this drink with or
> without additional flavors made completely based on honey as sole sugar
> source was excellent! Once you dilute honey sufficiently (the dilution
> would probably differ for various organisms) the organisms can use it as
> source of energy quite fine (mead has even up to 1:3 honey to water
> dilution sometimes). More about that is actually just few lines below your
> recipe on the same webpage from our previous experiments (and I've just
> found out that there is "suboptimal" concentration on one place in the
> recipe (5% (w/v) instead of 8-11% (w/v), corrected :-)).
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Honey_Cooler_drink_manual_-_short_workshop_form
> Bit another point of view from our experiments in Ireland which focused
> especially on "honey cooler"/probiotic soda
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Ginger_ale_recipe
> Best of luck with the ferments, I'm really glad that you post it so there
> is another approach on the wikies.
> Sincerely,
> Frantisek
> PS I would love to do some more research on the "bottling" step. The need
> to cool/hibernate the cultures is very limiting in some cases (large,
> generally expensive equipment needed) and if one wants to keep some
> sweetness in the drinks it is kind of necessity (bit difference in taste).
> I'd like to do some experiments where among the other sugar sources the
> prebiotic oligosaccharides could be used to feed the culture. These have
> level of sweetness up to 40% of saccharose (or more/less more
> research/reading needed) and are used as energy source by "some" probiotic
> organisms but not by all. If the culture was developed where various
> organisms would be present in a stable "symbiotic" environment which would
> however not be able to ferment given oligosaccharide, than a brew which
> would be nice and sweat and probiotic would be produced without the need of
> refrigeration - that is the theory. One single organism could be used
> instead but the negative effect because of intake of large quantities could
> take place concerning the probiotic flora of the intestinal tract.  Anyway
> that is the future, now my "haircut" and bed, I'm working tomorrow.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prebiotic_%28nutrition%29
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 23:38:14 -0800
> From: "Nevada M." <bramble.greenbrier at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Bio] lactobacilli fermented soda recipe
> To: bio at lists.noisebridge.net, Tastebridge
>     <tastebridge at lists.noisebridge.net>
> Message-ID:
>     <CAJz_BgZ5OcGP7egfDnMc2nd76nFr_MpvrGG13nKPeHjJ1xojzA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Hey folks,
> I finally got around to posting the lactobacilli fermented soda recipe I
> have -- it's a way to make your own sweet, carbonated, probiotic sodas.
> I've made some delicious ones before; I thought it might be another
> project that could go along with the kombucha-making.  The link to the
> recipe's on this page:
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Recipes_and_Manuals
> Best,
> Nevada
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