New Consensus on Status of Noisebridge
Noisebridge accessibility guild notes go here.
- 1 NOISEBRIDGE ACCESSIBILITY GUILD MEETING NOTES
- 1.1 MEETING NOTES TEMPLATE TO COPY FROM
- 1.2 SECOND MEETING AUG 7 2020
- 1.3 Meeting 2 AUGUST 5 2020
- 1.4 FIRST MEETING JULY 24 2020
- 1.5 IMPLEMENTATION=
NOISEBRIDGE ACCESSIBILITY GUILD MEETING NOTES
MEETING NOTES TEMPLATE TO COPY FROM
SECOND MEETING AUG 7 2020
Meeting 2 AUGUST 5 2020
- DATE: AUGUST 5 2020
- TIME: 6PM-7PM
- PARCICIPANTS: lxpk, pyconaut
- AGENDA: Noisebridge Accessibility Policy drafting, Planning Accessibility Buildout, Rikke's report on Tuesday, front door and bathroom ADA usability
David kenan ada discussion
Rikke: Me and David discussed 3 key items 1 the CASp inspection 2 Basic ada compilance 3 physical improvaments for the space
first david outlined that the reason to get a CASp inspection is to make persciption that will allow for upgrades that if done corectly will portect us from litigation about ADA in the future.
if we dont make all of the perscriptions we could become liable for not folloing the recomendations.
he says we should do it before we move in, partly because when we move in we might cause changes that would require new requirements. We would have a much harder time following the phases
Kim Blackseth is the recommended person (he did the CASp inspectiion for Omni (where sudo roomis)) was about 4k for whole inspection. This process will be expidited by having archatectural floor plans. Also make sure to have upgrade drawings ready as well
it does not need to be notoarised or certified floor plans, they just need to be accurate to scale, for doors and the like.
David is getting a quote for a inclined stair lift vs a verticle elevator
it would be hard to install a full ada compliant stairlift or elevator.
We need to find the proper place to put them.
Start clearing the different bars for ADA, first floor is most importaint, then worry about the second floor.
Wide enough doors, ADA bathroom, make sure anything that could be hosted upstairs can be hosted downstairs if need be are the main first steps.
I talked to David Keenan on 29 July 2020. He recommended Kim Blackseth as CASp inspector, and had a lot of useful information and suggestions for how to move forward. It was a fairly long and free-form conversation, so I’ve tried to organize my notes into sections for clarity.
Regarding CASp inspection (when, what, how, etc.), he started by laying out a number of things to consider:
- David confirms what @Zach said, namely that not all inspectors are created equal, and that making the right choice is important. He repeated the recommendation of Kim Blackseth. Any CASp inspector has to issue a final report, which is a semi-public document and permanent record. Any non-compliance issues and corrective measures will be noted in that report, and if the prescribed corrections are not implemented, that will potentially open us up to liability.
- Timing matters; considering item 1, an inspection done before we move in would obviously be focused on existing and / or planned features of the space, and would make prescriptions on that basis, whereas an inspection done once we’re fully moved in and operational will also address things like whether there are power cords on the floor, whether the tables are tall enough and spaced far enough apart, etc. In other words, when we call in an inspector really depends on what we want feedback on.
- Having architectural plan drawings of the current space and of any planned changes to the space will greatly facilitate getting good feedback from a CASp inspector.
Regarding basic ADA compliance for ground floor access, David noted the following points (not an exhaustive list) as things we should be looking at:
- Grade to the front door no greater than 2%
- Clear and permanently marked access to the front door from the street
- Accessible parking
- Doors at least 32" clearance when open, open at no more than 5lbs of force
- Floors level, no big bumps or dips
- Accessible downstairs bathroom
- Rear fire escape; corridor / hallway is wide enough, unobstructed''
Regarding physical upgrades to the space, David suggested getting quotes and drawings for the various solutions we’ve discussed (stair lift, free-standing / vertical wheelchair lift). He did mention that he does not believe there are any such solutions available that meet the standards for compliance for a commercial operation (which we would fall under, since we’re definitely not a residential space). Kim Blackseth’s Omni report includes a recommendation for a company that does lifts, so it might be worth reaching out to them for starters? David also re-iterated what he has previously stated, namely that from a legal / compliance perspective, we are not obligated to provide access to the second floor, as long as we provide equivalent infrastructure to host the same types of activities downstairs as we do upstairs. In other words, if we generally use the upstairs for meetings or classes, then we would need to provide equivalent setups (e.g. furniture, whiteboards, projectors, etc.) in an area downstairs.
Last, but not least, he noted a fire safety issue that will need to be addressed: he says that if we are going to use the area under the front stairs for storage (and you know we will), then that has to be sheet rocked.
Front door and bathroom usability
Is the front 2 doors wide enough? Fire door 3 feet is desirable. It SHOULD be. Need to verify.
We eventually want a button openable entry door system tied into our access controls but initially having a usable handle/hook/bar is a start/fallback in case button broken.
What kits can we evaluate and reccommend for purchasing/install? (Add any possibilities you can find and critique here)
foot door foot pull (we can make these for free with the steel we already have)
door panic bar, push door opener
- $129 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Universal-Hardware-UL-Listed-2-7-16-in-Aluminum-Rim-Panic-Device-with-Standard-Pull-and-Cylinder-40010/203737732
electronic Button open door kits:
For bathroom we need a new toilet and a ada bar next to toilet. As well as get a touchless faucet.
- $262 https://www.homedepot.com/p/American-Standard-Paradigm-Selectronic-Base-Model-AC-Powered-Single-Hole-Touchless-Bathroom-Faucet-with-0-5-GPM-in-Polished-Chrome-702B105-002/309415324
- $33 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Glacier-Bay-42-in-x-1-1-4-in-Concealed-Screw-ADA-Compliant-Grab-Bar-in-Brushed-Stainless-Steel-20135-03202-42/206767716
ADA touchless dual flow toilet
- Still needs research
ACCESSIBILITY GUILD REPORT FOR TUESDAY
To establish minimal viable accessibility of front doors and bathroom during the buildout, we should immediately start by buyng 3 door opener kits and we can metal bend the pullarms ourselves for 0 cost and get 3 $5-600 electronic door arms for approximately $1600 total.
We will research more options between now and next NB Tuesday / NB Accessibility Friday meetings to make specific suitable model recommendations.
FIRST MEETING JULY 24 2020
- DATE: July 24 2020
- TIME: 6:00PST - 7:00PST
Participants (add yourself): Lxpk, Pyconaut, TJ, James
- ADA policy draft
- building planning
bathrooms elevator doors tables hallways
we need a CASP insection
Have we talked to DIY Spaces, the peeps who worked with Omni? They focus on accessibility. Diy spaces has a CASp inspector they know
pyconaut, How is your stream broken? I can hear you.
lx, do you have particular items in mind for a policy? Please do. Refresh is good.
So I'm not sure what everyone else has in mind for the policy yet but I took a first stab at describing accessibility at noisebridge on the wiki page:
Accessibility is a Noisebridge value: We ensure the space, resources and events are as accessible as possible. Noisebridge is currently online only while the space is physically closed and not accessible to anyone but movers. Noisebridge is conducting meetings and events online and will continue to conduct events with online access to facilitate remote participation. The new location will have ground floor doors and is half on the ground floor. Elevator access to the second floor is being developed.
Meetings are being held online. Events like meetups and classes are being held online. We'll do our best to keep things happening online so everyone can participate.
I was brought here by this post on accessibility that I saw: https://discuss.noisebridge.info/t/drafting-a-noisebridge-accessibility-policy/1891/19
lxpk: great so there are some drafts there to work with.
Not sure if there are more.
lxpk: we are splitting the task up into 2 parts: an accessibility statement with broad language, and an actual policy.
I'll try to paste it to the wiki...
Noisebridge is dedicated to providing an accessible and equally boundary-free experience, regardless of any physical or mental constraints. We consider accessibility and ADA-compliance for people at our events and space to be of the utmost importance in encouraging education, creativity and equal access for all.
In addition, we ask users of Noisebridge to keep in mind the relative social significance of privacy activism in the United States today. The nature of privacy may limit specific access on a case-by-case basis, but never for the sake of simple inconvenience or as an excuse to limit accessibility for those who are otherwise unable to participate at Noisebridge. Different users of Noisebridge have different levels of access to the space and events. We acknowledge that both ableism and disability awareness is not enough to provide and maintain accessibility at Noisebridge.
When you are running an event or presentation at Noisebridge, provide reasonable notice and warning to allow others the opportunity to participate if they wish. With this — as anything else — each person has a responsibility to be considerate of the accessibility levels of others. Participation, projects, and events should strive to exist in a culture of equal access.
Noisebridge shall be as open and accessible as possible - 1mma
“We uphold that the standard of Excellence in this context is to prioritize the access and participation of disabled community members.” - Rikke
Here is a post from Rikke also on two different documents needed... https://discuss.noisebridge.info/t/drafting-a-noisebridge-accessibility-policy/1891/7
<unconfirmed> Currently, Rikke and Tyler are reaching out to other hackerspaces to find an ADA inspector </unconfirmed> lxpk: I asked on the discuss.
Start on bathroom and doors, build out plan for the space in Blender
Lxpk: I posted the current draft of the policy on the wiki https://noisebridge.net/accessibility and we'll work more on that and the build plan next week! Thanks everyone for coming.