Meeting Notes 2012 02 14

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HOWTO run a meeting.[edit]

Pick a moderator, and a note-taker. The note-taker should:

  • write notes in this page, put them back up online when they're done,
  • edit the Current Consensus Items if anything is decided to be up for consensus next week (stuff raised for consensus this week should be publicised for a final decision next week)
  • edit the Consensus Items History if anything was consensed or failed to consense this week.
  • tell and if there are new members.

Moderator should:

  • make sure everyone gets a chance to speak
  • speak minimally themselves
  • keep the meeting moving! you're in charge of summarizing the consensus, and/or suggesting things that need to be done!
  • get the membership binders and ensure they are returned to the black desk


The 204th Meeting of Noisebridge

Note-taker: davidme

Moderator: Tom

Introduction and Names[edit]

  • What Noisebridge is about: "Noisebridge is a 501c3 nonprofit that provides a space for creation, collaboration, and learning about technology and creative projects. Noisebridge provides space, power tools, and infrastructure to help the public learn new skills and create cool things. Noisebridge continues to exist through and depends entirely on membership fees and donations. Our code of conduct is 'Be excellent to each other'."
  • Round of introductions: What's your name, what do you do, and if you are new, how did you hear about Noisebridge? Start with the moderator and go left.
  • A brief primer on consensus process: We agree and so should you! Only paid-up members can block consensus.
  • Tom -- moderator
  • Leif -- interested in social solutions to technical problems
  • Kelly - treasurer
  • Erica - CONCERNED ABOUT THE KITCHEN (happy valentine's day y'all)
  • Zephyr - mathematician
  • Lilly - Uses the space to learn new things
  • Jesse - likes^H^H^H^H loves computers
  • Daniel - works at edutech and on hack the future
  • Shannon - does very little
  • Drew - web developer etc
  • Brandon - embedded firmware dev
  • David - takes notes
  • Mike - Technowandërerer
  • Ben - Here to learn PHP in 14 Days!
  • Neil - learning to make webapps
  • Matt - from Occupy NYC
  • Devin - with OWS
  • Eric - Sleeps on BART, likes linux on things
  • Justin - Discuss e-waste
  • Laura - doesn't have much to say
  • Ben - hi
  • Drew - OWS - one of original organizers!!!11
  • Colin - badass
  • Andrew - OWS
  • Josh - fights for users yay
  • Alex - makes Code Hero
  • Chris - hi
  • Jesse - from occupy in canada here doing journalism on socialists/ism
  • Miloh - just got back from germany, lost beard
  • Lauren - student journalist at SF state (redacted)
  • Skye - designs things
  • Jesse - here to learn
  • Adam - worked on a project that is being launched here tonight
  • Rayc - working on noisebridge coasters
  • Jake - making a keypad

Short Announcements[edit]

Cool new projects? Something you'd like people to know? Say now, but keep it short!

  • Tony, Gavin and Zephyr have put together a zine of some sort, it has anarchist and capitalist and jovialism and at least some asm.
  • Skye, Zephyr and Alex have a new Hacker place called "Cyberia" on Market St; hackers/artists/musicians make rad things
  • Phrack High Council and ZFO need your help in subverting the corporatist white hat system of control.
  • Alex - Code Hero Kickstarter project - has 14k so far, might not make it to 100k, please help get the word out [kickstarter link]
  • Conference where content is produced by people in conference Conference

New or Stale Events[edit]

Is there anything new happening at the space? Is there anything that has stopped happening at the space?

  • Rayc started a Lasercutting workshop on Thursday nights at 7pm
  • Brazilian researcher in the field of ayahuasca is going to be in town (fix this)
  • Rayc made Sunday cleaning day, had a lot of people, was successful

Membership Binder[edit]

  • Read off any names from the binder for the past month. Write a check on every open application.
  • Anyone up for joining this week (ie have four checks by their name + have two sponsors) should introduce themselves then leave the area in search of gifts (traditionally beer and a lime) for the rest of the group. The rest of the meeting should consense on whether they may join.

We were unable to locate the membership binder. It was the consensus of those present that any person currently in the process of applying for membership could get a checkmark on their application by speaking out and introducing themselves. Anyone non present will not get a checkmark for this week. We had one new applicant this week:

  • <missed his name>

Financial Report[edit]

Funds in bank: $20449.67

Noisetor ( $3346.58, total funds belonging to noisetor

Consensus items[edit]

(Add any new items for consensus to the Current Consensus Items page.)

Shannon likes it. No one objects. *applause*

No one objects.

Discussion Items[edit]

Non-hackers hanging out at Noisebridge[edit]

Noticed non-hackers hanging out in the library, asked them to come to this meeting, none of them are here People have the image that this is an "open resource" for people to do anything - preference should be for hacking

Whether Noisebridge is primarily for hacking?

Stack: Jake

Jake: Mailing list differ with my opinion on what noisebridge is for One night - guy (James) says he's not responsible for anyone he brings in - jake feels people should be accountable for who they bring to noisebridge, James says "noisebridge is a public place, anybody can come here anytime" James also said "noisebridge used to be about communications/hacking, now about occupy and using the kitchen". last night jake told James we were having a meeting tonight, and that he should attend, but he couldn't make it. jake encouraged him to write a note to the meeting, which also didn't happen. guy left around 2 today?

Zephyr: has been coming here a while, but doesn't want to come lately because of non-hacker groups - if you come to a hacker space, you should be hacking. if you're not a hacker, leave. feels a marked decline; less people taking us seriously

Rayc: Al Sweigart started this thing, where you can save food by writing your name on it and keeping it here - sign on the refrigerator this has been abused - we can not use it for original purpose (storing kombucha and brews) Fridge should be fair game for anybody if food is left there.

Miloh: Suggests Rayc has no idea what he's talking about.

Josh: Response to zephyr - we are interested in aspiring hackers

Kelly: If people in the space who are aspiring hackers, this should be evidenced by how much time they spend learning hacking vs using resources

Jake: "if people misusing space, we should give them project" - i object to this, this makes the space less usable for people who have a genuine interest in hacking

Kelly: Problem: We used to have small community, but now there is a subcommunity of people who have never been to tuesday night meetings/wiki/mailing list, we have no way of communicating with them. I have spent the past couple of weeks trying to meet people, having uncomfortable conversations. Also worked on Rooster_Brigade. "Snitches get stitches" It is okay to talk openly about people with behavior that is concerning. Maybe if we talk openly about these people we can see them as human beings.

Zephyr: Exiled Jon, received hostility for doing this. We need to be more trusting of people in Noisebridge to determine who is an oogle.

(?1): We need more input from oogles, because i felt awkward about having this discussion about hypothetical people, we haven't really heard from any of these "oogles". James, Delta, Ashley

(?2): It's not our job to speak up for these people: they know they can come here. They were here at the last meeting, and said nothing.

(?1): I talked to one of them, and said he was in the space, but everyone talked so much that he didn't get the chance to talk. Would like to hear from someone who thinks it's appropriate to hang out here without doing any hacking. Addressing Amber, specifically. (Who is here!) Would like to hear her perspective.

Amber: Says she is using the space for hacking. To me hacking is learning and just going at it as you're making things being creative and learning at the same time and incorporating everyone into that. so you guys may have a different definition of hacking. i am not a computer hacker, but i do use my own computer and i hack astrology and i'm […] anyone who wants to learn more about that when they sit with me […]

Tom wants to set times to discussion items.

Kelly suggests we defer food to another meeting. Talk more about people this week. No one objects. Rayc will add fridge as discussion for next week.

Shannon: Response to amber: wish i had said what i was going to say earlier: every soup kitchen in tenderloin is full of people who are willing to listen to sermon to get a meal — it seems like we have people who are learning to talk like hackers so they can use our kitchen.

(?3): Response to amber: Specifically, this space is about the creative use of technology. Consistent voice for noisebridge: we should do things in the realm of technology. We don't feel Astrology is the same thing.

Tom: Proposes that we have a disagreement over what is Hacking. It seems it has to be related to technology.

Ben: Hacking should be anything related to science: Tastebridge, as an example.

Nick: First came to Noisebridge 6 months ago, before politics and drama. Seems to be a steady decline since I've been here. I believe we are far venturing from being a hackerspace, because we have a narrow definition of hacking. I spend most of my time in the woodshop making random stuff, and there's nothing wrong with me doing that. There's not much technology involved: I'm using my passion for working in my hands to hack in my own way.

Kelly: We should avoid discussion of defining hacking. If there's someone in the space who is doing something that they think is hacking but you disagree, we should all talk about it.

Astrology is an enemy of hackers. It's a fundamentally unscientific approach of dealing with problems.

Rayc: Our credo lists us as a space for science, technology, other things. It doesn't list anything about cooking/sleeping.

Erik: Leaving aside what hacking is/is not, science should be part of the definition, and science is empirical.

(1?): I don't object to the idea that we can hack with food, but I see people coming who are just here to eat, not to foodhack.

Tom: we have open question of what hacking is, and discussion of this is not open to this meeting

Shannon would love to lead a discussion of what hacking at on Wednesday (tomorrow) at 8pm.


Kelly would appreciate it if people could express things they have strong opinions about. There are people who believe that one person should not do-ocratically ban someone. We should know the parameters of the do-ocracy.

Josh: When something breaks in debian, they fix the error, then they fix the policy. Translation in non-hacker-speak:

Response to what Kelly was saying - I don't think people should be able to ban, but kicking someone out is totally do-ocratically possible.

Miloh: Solution: We disband Noisebridge.

Rachel: A year ago this meeting had 15 people in it, the latest few times it's had 30 people.

Jake: Solution: We should agree here to empower people to ask others to leave noisebridge if: 1) they say noisebridge is not about hacking 2) they claim they are not responsible for people they bring in 3) if we ask them to explain themselves to the group (via meeting/email list, etc), and they choose not to

Shannon is uncomfortable with making a list of things you can't say at Noisebridge. It's already been the practice at Noisebridge to ask disruptive people to leave (pending coming back to a meeting.)

Believes Shannon is mistaken. Had a few people come up to me and claim that exiling John was unexcellent.


(Nick): is impartial. there should be the possibility of throwing someone out of Noisebridge, but before that extreme action is taken there should be a number of warnings. it should be made very clear what their problem is, someone should go up to them and tell them what they are doing is unexcellent.

Kelly: It's good to talk to people multiple times, but that should not always have to be one person. It should be distributed across people

(?5): Queue system, strike system

Rachel: My experience is not accurate from what Shannon is saying, people do sometimes come to meetings, we have a Mediation process. People have used it! The way we proceed does not include the stern/condescending tone

Kelly: Majority of people in noisebridge feel they don't have the authority to say that to people. you have to have the balls to tell people they need to leave — most people don't feel comfortable with that.

Miloh: Asks how many people have asked someone to leave. ~10 hands go up.

(?2): Would like to expand on what Shannon said about asking people to come to a tuesday meeting, a persistent use of time that degrades the space is also a good reason to ask someone to come to a meeting

Andrew: Door should have an AUP.

(?7): We've historically tried to keep this short by saying to just be excellent.

Leif: The list implies "because that's not on the list, it must be allowed!"

Kelly: Noisebridge radically resists any attempt of codification of rules.

We should make a bigger version of the paragraph that explains what

Shannon: Telling someone to leave is a set of technical skills that can be learned. It is helpful to not be alone and be over 6' tall.

Tom is happy to teach a workshop on this!

(?): Me and Robert had a good idea that we could create a pamphlet so people have something more tangible, increase respect.

(?8): Amber and everyone, it's pretty clear what you need to do to be cool with everyone here, it includes not bringing people over who are just going to loiter etc.

Rayc: The pamphlet! If we create it and hand it out to people they will better understand Noisebridge policies.

(?9): When you come here you have to do stuff, you can't just be a spectator.

Zephyr: Like Shannon said, people are abusing the system, calling everything hacking.

Miloh: There is a list of things people have created here. People might like it.

Discussion Items[edit]

Kelly wants to discuss the people who we ask to come here who don't show up for meetings (our conflict resolution process)

Rachel wants to discuss technical solutions to social problems

Rayc has a text: Guy james that was asked to come to meeting sent email to No one can access the moderation queue, we're not sure where the email went.

Conflict Resolution Process[edit]

Shannon: My understanding of the policy i outlined: the first step should not just be telling someone they're unexcellent, but also asking them to leave and not come back until they've been to a meeting

Zephyr: I don't think it's obviou

Rachel: When Rob 2.0 was being unexcellent, we asked him to not come back — what is unexcellent enough to get kicked out of the space and not come back

We should definitely have two paths of mediation — either one on one or group mediation.

Rachel: We have a page on the wiki Conflict_Resolution: this is the page we made addressing the issues last time we had them. Tom thinks it


Zephyr: Is it crazy to say James isn't allowed back?

Jake: He sent an email, so we have to read that. But if he hadn't sent the email, somebody said it's unexcellent to limit free speech. But if your free speech is "Noisebridge is open to anybody to do whatever you want and you're not responsible for anything", what are you supposed to do.

Tom thinks Shannon was saying we do not want to have a list of things that you can't say at Noisebridge, not that you can't be unexcellent through speaking

Shannon: Next step is to explicitly tell people who we told aren't welcome until they come to a meeting that they have to come to a meeting. And that everyone should ask them to leave until they come to a meeting.

Tom: Does anyone disagree: "It would not be excellent for me to tell one of these street kids to leave and not come back until they start mediation ideally by coming to a tuesday night meeting." "Does anyone think they don't have the do-ocratic right or permission to remove someone from the space, pending mediation?"

Shannon: When someone has been unxcellent and i asked them to leave and they didn't, then i threatened to call the police. ( never actually had to call police)

rachel: there's a community understanding that it's okay to ask someone to leave if they're being unexcellent

Tom: example of being really lousy: if i've had a bunch of people tell me you've been really lousy, and they tried to remove you from the space.

Leif: If necessary to kick someone out, anyone should be able to ask people to leave, not just members. If you really think it's the right thing to do, and the responsibility is on the person doing the kicking to discuss it at next week's meeting.

Kelly: it's necessary for us to condone some public aggregation of information about unexcellent behavior that includes first names. got a lot of asshole emails and attitude from Rayc for starting the rooster brigade. think it is necessary to accumulate a record using first names as primary keys to aggregate minor infractions. big dramatic assholish behavior gets people in trouble, but if they're sitting here consuming resources without doing anything, nobody talks about them.

Rachel: Kelly, are you seeking support from the community?

Kelly: there's 86, that seems where people should be after all this

Shannon: Make an 85 page for the step before 86

Rick(?): If there are street kids here, someone should be mentoring them! I will buy them cookies and teach them to solder.

Rayc: Created a Human Resources binder as a tool to reaching out! It has resources for humans.

OWS guy agrees!

Alex: Proposes every possible resources to people

(?): In theory it's a good idea to give one-on-one tutoring to anyone who comes in off the street, but it's not possible.

Technical Solutions to Social Problems[edit]

Kelly: Are there particular projects you'd like to hear about?

Rachel: would like to hear about keypads.

Jake: Working on it, have the whole thing designed, but I have other things that I should be doing. If anyone wants to work on it, it's an arduino, max32 chip, RJ-45 socket and a payphone keypad! a little software, beeper and LEDs. I also made periscope - camera mounted to entryway, connected to TV upstairs, you can see who is buzzing the gate. Do-ocratic fact that if someone's outside the gate, you have no obligation to let them in.

Tom: if you let someone into noisebridge, you are responsible for their actions

Kelly: Keycode_Access details possible keycode system. Access_Control has a list of possible police state actions and who blocks them. There were two weeks of discussion about this Kelly is working on some stuff, there will be a physical numberpad on the front door, you can enter a number code to buzz yourself in, codes can be generated, members can have multiple unique codes, responsibility can be distributed. Member, for example, could have 3 keycodes: One for vaguely cool people, one for members, and one for myself. If there are any problematic people, we could disable codes. Opinions

Shannon: Thinks we should buy a system instead of making our own. Would be $1000 to buy one. If anyone feels like helping…

Tom suggests a wiki page that details all the things we need from a keycode system.

Terry: knows a guy who sells intercoms, will talk to Shannon

Kelly: We're trying not pick out possible products, there is a list on the wiki, please contribute or complain about it

(?) likes the idea of Jake making stuff

Tom likes parallel solutions.

Shannon: Last week, Noisebridge members gave him money and he bought 56 keys! But he forgot to bring them tonight.

Rayc: Access system is great, but it doesn't what it could be doing --- he's working on framework for noisebridge as a local area to figure out what people are w

Tom: Buzzer should go to a list of phone numbers of people who volunteer to let people into the space by phone. A long time from now, once we implement other things that work.

Miloh: If I disconnect the buzzer… It's a switch to disable/enable the buzzer. He has a zine!

Kelly: If we have the ability to give people access codes, people probably wouldn't piss their pants over disabling the buzzer.

End of Meeting[edit]

  • PGP Key Signing could happen now, check the list to see who wants in on the action.
  • Put back the membership binder in the black desk.
  • Save the meeting notes to the wiki.
  • Send a copy of the meeting notes to the discussion list.
  • Copy the Meeting Notes Template for next week's agenda and update the main wiki page's link to it.
  • Enjoy a cocktail with your fellow hacker or robot.