Meeting Notes 2014 04 29

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These are the notes from the The 311th Meeting of Noisebridge. Note-taker: JARROD HICKS; Moderator: JOHN ELLIS.

  • CONSENSED. Revert to Member / associate member structure for recognized forms of NB participation
  • discussed unbanning RAYC

Short announcements and events[edit]

  • Garret Smith is now an associate member!

Membership Binder [edit]

  • Qbit, Week 4+
  • Hephestus, Week 4+
  • Kate Kligman, 4+
  • Xavier Mendoza, 4, Not present for consensus.

Financial Report[edit]

  • None given

Consensus items[edit]

Proposals from last week [edit]

revert to Member / associate member structure for recognized forms of NB participation. (bureaucracy Pull Request #35) Condition: this decision in no way ratifies the language used in the Policy Manual in the bureaucracy repo.

Naomi: most people think of what are now members as associate members, and the name is still used. Council members is only being used by council members that are using the title to assert authority. Otherwise "Capital M" members is still being used.

Cynthia: what about calling them "consensed"

Monad: just revert it.

Bill: can we describe the process?

Naomi: the process for associate is making a wiki page, getting 4 endorsements. This is becoming part of the club without going through consensus.

Deja: so then you are a member?

Naomi: Associate members cannot block consensus.

Kevin: A while ago new access control was tried out. Only Members and associate members could be in the space.

Monad: A person can be asked to leave if they are not an associate member or Member.

Deja: I have an issue with this, people are bullying and kick out people with out sponsors. No good.

Naomi: We already have a situation where anyone can tell anyone to leave if they are threatened. Sometimes this can be silly, or a power trip.

Deja: there needs to be more definite reasons why.

Kevin: The only issue I have with this proposal. Since i think the associate class should be removed.

Adrian: The whole point is to remove people who don't want to participate at a minimum level. We should fix the undoing of the thing that is broken then do the next thing. I'd rather see tiny steps toward directions.

Emerson: what is the process for becoming a member?

Naomi: explains

John: how would we do access control

Kevin: 24/7

Naomi: I think removing the associate member class is a disrespect to the many people who jumped through the hoops to get that status.

Dan: if we are going to discuss the removal of the associate member category, we should do it in the simplest language, what ever is easiest to use to use during discussion.

Naomi: There are still places on the github where the membership categories are confused.

Kevin: I'm sorry to dump several things on this proposal. Ref. github policy manual and the wording of the membership markdowns. I don't expect that this policy manual has been consensed on in the first place and consenting on this is consenting on the document that is not under consensus.

Naomi: Would you agree on adding language to this proposal that mentions that we are consenting on this definition change but not on the policy manual -- that we're not implicitly consenting to the policy manual itself?

Kevin: we still haven't consensed on an initial state for the policy manual.

Adrian: do you have a proposal in mind.

Kevin: there was a previous proposal. I thing the policy manual is too verbose and should be simplified into a tighter policy manual.

Naomi: The additional language would define the scope of the proposal.

Adrian: we can continue to update the language.

Naomi: I don't think this language change is substantial enough to warrant another week of discussion. Only that this is a notice regarding the scope of the change, but the official wording of the proposal is the same.

Consensed, with the official note in the notes that this only changes the wording of the text of the policy document and does not address the fact that the policy document is still not yet consensed.

Proposals for next week [edit]

Proposal to UN ban RAYC

Cynthia: Tastebrige, rayc held onto the tastebridge money and it was stolen from his squat.

Adrian: I would like to see in this process is what question are we going to ask. We shouldn't unban him without giving time for everyone affect not to be missed during the discussion. If he is consensed it should be a thorough consensus.

Deja: This thing is going too far. His personal state of mind is no body's business.

Deja: Can we concentrate on the reason he was banned.

Elma: There should be criteria that determine the banning.

Emerson: the reason that he was banned is unusual.

Monad: I think he was staying here to the point it was unhealthy. He needs to use the space in a more moderate way.

Adrian: He should be asked to go home and have a sleep when we see him in the space.

John: One of the big Questions. Is he banned because tom wanted him banned? Was this appropriate? Does anyone think that his behavior was so unexcellent that he should never be in the space again? Rayc isn't the only offender of sleeping in the space.

Dan: Big Picture. Are they a threat to the space going forward. I hear what people are saying about putting him on a short leash. I think he knows that he has a second chance, and that if he gets banned again it would be very quick.

Vee: I don't believe that he should be banned. He comes in everyday anyway. He does give me grief about cleaning in the space. I don't like that he exercises authority in the space.

Dan: There is a current situation that no one is asking him to leave.

Naomi: This is about the difference about what is actual consensus in the space. The actual consensus of NB is that he is allowed in the space.

Adrian: What is difficult idea to sell that Rayc needs to be held to a higher standard than others in the space. "Please get some sleep and don't be a jerk" is an excellent rider to add to it. If people want rayc on a short leash, they need to convince the people that are here when he is here to do so.

Monad: Not wanting to ask someone to leave is not necessarily approval of their presence. They might just want to be involved in such an action.

Naomi: Personal safety etc..

Monad: He is disrespectful of this process, by coming back.

Deja: He was being excellent while he is here.

Rayc: He has become more a mediator, and is helping stop others from over sleeping in the space

Sid: If you are going to judge rayc, you need to judge yourselves.

John: If there is problem with someone in the space and you need to ask them to leave, I am willing to back people up or handle it, but be honest with me.

PersonWearingTie: It is one thing to say a person is banned, and another is to enforce it. Please consider banning carefully.

Adrian: The reason that banning is easy and unbanning is hard is that people who feel unsafe being able to do something about it. We can go through this effort to unban him, an if he does something unexcellent, ask him to leave.

John: *explains the nuances of asking to leave.

Naomi: We have a situation that this guy can come back even though he is banned, and there is a grievance about him being a control freak. So the condition of his return should be that he has to run the Community Working Group.

Kevin: When I lost my trust of rayc after a tuesday meeting when he was leaving the space after a tuesday meeting. he was loud, threatening, and drinking. Generally our agreements at this space should be respected, and even if we don't agree with it when still respect our agreements. Rayc has not respected this process.

Adrian: If people want him back we should talk to those letting him in.

Emerson: hyperbolic ban system, 6 months is too harsh.

Deja: do you think that the decision to ban was not thoroughly thought out?

Sid: I have a solution, I will take personal responsibility for him.

Dan: I want to respond to Adrian and Kevin's concern's. Rayc's ban was driving by tom. The idea is that is civil disobedience and rayc needs to work this out with him, and others that want him out.

TIE: I think banning is not effective if we cannot enforce it. I we pursue other alternatives we can end up with something more workable.

Naomi: Rayc should be here listening, and should have to sit through this discussion with us.

(Name): What about a probationary period.

John: *requests that we take a break. Issue goes forward to next week.

Discussion Notes[edit]

Maker Faire Rollcall

John: If anyone is interested in volunteering at the noisebridge booth this year? There are four tickets, last time we got 10. Contact me neurofog <at> gmail <dot> com

Naomi: Guaranteed 4 and then spillover.

Dan: Be aware of Mitch Altman's concerns about DARPA funding for Maker Faire. It is in the month of May

200 dollar adventure

Adrian: We need more than 30.00 to fix up the electrical. Sid, do you have a to do list for fixing up the electrical? Is there anything we need to address the last minute code violations.

Naomi: Can we give money to the "electric working group", led by Sid?

Adrian: Is there anything you are blocked on Sid?

Sid: Not right now.

Elma: Should there be a group formed in case this is only the beginning?

Naomi: Anyone who thinks that this is something that should be pursued can form a working group.

Monad: Do we have an estimate.

Naomi: Currently we do have not an estimate; on Thursday we have C-10 electricians coming and we'll get one then.

Dan: What about a fundraising group? we need to deepen our pockets.

Deja: Fundraisers, I want to put myself in line for this. Companies would supply prizes and donations for fundraisers. I used to get these. Let's do something positive.

Dan: appreciates those who have the bravery to post positive things on the mailing list.


Bill: I don't think that anyone knows how to take care of the space. There are signs in the shop.

Dan: I have taken down signs that are too harsh, be careful with the signage.

Jade: I don't see any reasons why you can't put up a sign, why did you bring it up to the community?

Dish washing soap

Vee: we should get natural dish washing soap.

(Other stuff is said at this point.)

People should be doing their own dishes.


Dan: I have been made aware of one person who disappeared with Bill's hard drives has returned them. Dustin says that he did not take them. It is suggested that this be discussed in a smaller group.

Dan: Also the donation bin is being stolen from. Did anyone empty it officially? Also, anyone can get another trusted person and say, "i'm emptying it out, and bringing it to a Tuesday meeting". Please take this money off our hands so that it is not in the space.


Naomi - on the board, gave blood today, can't brain.

Adrian - embedded and wireless things

Floyd - everything

Tina - 3rd time. neurohacking

Vica - London hackerspace

chuck - crazy psycotic

ticor - ...

cory - hardware aspects

bill - having signs

John - pilot

Cynthia - community / kitchen person

Vee - Maintains Library

Danica - Everything,

Kevin - neurohacking, meetings

Jarrod - designer

Monad - fractals

Elma - Related to one of Noisebridge's students, sewing machine interest