Meeting Notes 2017 05 09
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
* noisebridge unmeeting 05-09-2017 + alex maker faire + juan mate + gareth philantropist + cowlicks meetings + x 5mof (not now) + trent announcement + jarrod announcement + george and marky - vr stuff + cowlicks safe space discussion + ryan - should we require people to use the wiki? + jarrod - announcement ** alex maker faire finalizing maker faire plans and prep. simbridge? is a virtual reality exposition of noisebridge. 3d model of noisebridge. experiences of actual noisebridge with 360 camera. wants to capture as much as possible of actual noisebridge between now and then. wants suggestions! jarrod - signup for maker faire is on its way to the announcement list in the moderation queue. looking for volunteers. thurs 18, early morning, uhaul, san mateo. friday 13:00-17:00. a little bit of setup. after friday there's a dinner. and we can see things without people there. saturday 10:00-19:00, sunday 10:00-18:00, then takedown, bring things back to noisebridge. two projects: simbridge and ordibooth. next tuesday there will be a training session. 19:30? thex - unofficial makerfaire soire? unofficial hangout. thursday after 5mof at noisebridge. possibly official/unofficial. a lot of people can come by. also 5mof mighyt be cool for makerfaire people to talk about makerfaire. lxkpk - do we need party prep? thex - not sure, we can blow the doors off if people want. cool. consensus is that we should party prep. official or unofficial. thex will look for one more person to help. multiple people offer to chip in. dj? thex is planning on setting it up. we'll see if it happens. short interlude on who opens the door. ** juan mate order is in. this week or next week. emailed 2600 guy about when and heads up. we should organize some people to collect it. will put that in #group-by when we have more info. probably worth discussing where we will store it. thex - what's the bottom line? juan - 40 cases. some are allocated for noisebridge, some are allocated for people. some are up for grabs. ideally purchasable like beer for people to buy in the space. 8-10 bottles in a case. ** trent gareth wants to be a philantropist trent. gareth - he's a 3d programmer trying to be in a startup. trying to make a tool for vr makers? lxpk - we have a 360 camera and we'd love to talk to you trent - we should explain how this works. what's a philantropist? lxpk - someone who wants to contribute financially and socially. 24-hour access. being excellent to each other. sponsorship by a member. $500? 5 mill? what ever you want. cowlicks - how do we get rid of a philantropist? lxpk - a member can unphilantropize them. also what's a member? like a philantropist but 4 weeks, two sponsors, consensus. trent - normal noisebridge rules apply to everyone. does anyone object to gareth? nope! trent will introduce gareth to being a philantropist. thex - what's the status of the board, treasurer, etc? can we confirm that we have all our obligations? jarrod - brings up a good point that we used to have an officers page. dunno if that has been updated. but we shouldn't require people to be on slack. ryan - but we shouldn't require people to use the wiki too. especially kids. trent - operational security is important too. so we've taken steps to reduce amount of public info. thex - single point of contact. augur - there's a wiki list but prob not accurate. cowlicks - board doesn't do anything. they've taken an oath not to do anything. there for legal purposes. but some legal liability. trent - united states law requires us to have a board. thex - secretary and treasurer are important. ** cowlicks meetings cowlicks - does anyone have any ideas or problems with what we do at meetings? does anyone think our meetings are perfect? (no) does anyone have suggestions? (yes) main objections: doesn't like when people pitch things to noisebridge. been to a couple that are very pitchy with a captive audience. we need a way for people to find others interested but tone it down a little bit. darryl - people who want to pitch things should be at 5mof. ryan - that would be great. cowlicks - if they want to pitch things they can go to a meetup. cowlicks - second thing: at meetings when contentious topics come up, some people are inclined to discuss them outside of the the meeting. think we should take the chance at the meeting to discuss problems or drama. not necessarily bringing things to the meeting but open discussion about how we handled things. feels like at meetings hard things are avoided to not scare people. it responses: + jarrod - all the stuff you suggested falls under the moderator's discussion. moderator can decide. moderator could stop a pitch or suggest saving it for another person. moderator is never required to follow list on page. moderator should always push for how they want meetings to run. + cowlicks - definitely true but this discussion is part of it. + thex - worthwhile time to enhance moderating notes. good to have an open discussion. + lizzie - meetings are very structured, kind of boring frankly. + lxpk - some parts of the meeting get rushed for time reasons. more than controversy-fearing. we can streamline certain things. section called the manual. made a poster to pay attention to it. a manual could be printed. the idea of the meeting is not to require computers to participate. a printout could be useful. we could put things there encouraging people to read and have access to. suggestion: printed manual is actual embodiment without having to go into whole long things. + + luke - facilitating vs moderating. unconference facilitation model called fishbowl e.g. two people in middle, third person can come and kick someone out. so it's a good way to have discussions. + george - when you guys have meetings, you guys do talk about? + lxpk - we have topics. + ryan - twice in a row we've had unmeetings. + cowlicks - no hard action item. but we should speak up at meetings about how it's being run. we should ask questions. likes idea of a handout. suggestions: safe space, membership and philantropy are things we should talk about. + lxpk - definitions can be written in full detail, even with dissenting versions, we should have that. during the meeting we can discuss how we think it's evolving. e.g. "how are we feeling about having a safe space". + jarrod: would like to see more scaffolding on the safe space discussion. the safe space discussion doesn't have any scaffolding on the wiki, ideally we'll get an organic discussion. and that's missing on the meeting + lxpk - the discussion page and the wiki format are designed to help evolve content like this. we don't want to set things in stone. we could work on things with the normal wiki process even though it can be frustrating. e.g. editing wikipedia can be a bad experience but noisebridge can be better. + thex - typed "safe space" into wiki, got a weird page referring to the 86 page. + lxpk - let's fix this right now. meet thex and lxpk after the meeting. + thex - has been the principal editor of the noisebridge homepage and discussion page. has pretty much beaten back the tits and stories. made an effort to organize things weekly. + lxpk - what's the page? + jarrod - noisebridge.net discussion page. ** thex anyone interested in running 5mof? otherwise let's focus on the next week, third thursday, day before maker faire. ? - what is 5mof? thex - monthlyish sometimes weekly historical third thursday talk for 5 minutes. typically ten talks. next thursday will be day before maker faire. one talk for ordibooth, one talk for simbridge, hopefully some other people. hit up 5mof on the wiki. thex is taking point, may have a conflict, can't 100% confirm whole 5mof. but will definitely be here after lizzie - can maybe mc if thex needs it. thex - slightly larger - volunteer to make sure it goes on announce and meetup. jarrod - j usually does it. lizzie thex - can jarrod be able to moderate announce? jarrod - needs to ask #rack. cowlicks and lizzie - thanks for making it happen. thex - music and drink geoge - do we livestream it? thex - we could but don't. sometimes we record it. george - we should do it sometime. maybe vr. ** trent has an announcmenet trent looks around shiftily. thursday 8pm - the library wg will be meeting. will be working on a django and react app for the library. don't come if you know what you're doing, but if you want to learn come. react and django rest. so probably ** jarrod annoucnement stupid shit hackathon is this weekend. it's probably one of the biggest events we have for the last two years. we use every chair and seat and every working space. 150 people here all trying to find a place for their laptops and burritos and workshops. please be prepared + also come. coming in early saturday for cleanup. same day as godwaffle. then after that stupid shit starts. removing things from circumstances. if you want to come to help clean, come at 8-12 and meet jarrod. but also come and work on projects. really cool event. took us by surprise. now we have a welder and laser cutter. ryan - lots of people won't be trained. augur - one person will be here to train. thex - who is the point? jarrod - noah swartz thex - also toool is coming on sunday. jarrod - good luck. thex - if no one has any objections he'll take the back space around church for vr stuff and toool. cowlicks - we should ask if toool can move thex - they moved it already jarrod - depends on how many people. ryan - could we fit it in turing? back room has plug access because wifi sucks. lxpk - toool should just do stupid shit. jatrrod- the networek connection has died every stupid shit hackathon soooo ryan - yeah. even with wired? jarrod - probably just a wireless. lxpk - bring ethernet adaptor. thex - will have at least one 5ghz network running indepedently. ryan - who's workin on the ethernet switch in the back room? crickets thex - when are we doing setup? jarrod - saturday morning. thex - can't be here saturday mo9rning but it could be cool to drop extension cables and power stips. lizzie - but godwaffle thex - before staurday, church and turing. jarrod - tables and chairs around turing and church. will finish this discussion outside of meeting ** vr stuff george and marky hosted a film festival in vr and it was a concept we've been working on at altspace. was really cool. watching a 2d screen inside an immersive theater, + q and a sessions. looking how to develop space more. unity plugs right into it but it's still tricky. lx and ryan will talk after. george - 1000, 4000 lx - 5mof george - nicolas cage's brother ** cowlicks wanted to have a safe space discussion if you, maybe like a week ago, he saw a thing happen that made him unsure how to handle it. wanted to have a discussion about how noisebridge isn't very safe and how we can make it better. in particular, someone came to noisebridge for the first time, guy gave her a tour, monopolized her time for 3+ hours. she was friendly but the guy wasn't picking up hints. he should have given her space. if it's your first time here you want to be nice but he wouldn't be surprised if she didn't come back. tried to pull him aside without making it awkward but it didn't work. that's something cowlicks wanted to make people aware of it. noisebridge being a safe space isn't only about harassment thex - now that you've had time to think about it, how could you have handled it? cowlicks - didn't do anything for the fiorst hour, could have been direct about talking somewhere else. george - was there a complaint? cowlicks - yeah I'm complaining. george - did she complain? cowlicks - I'm complaining. She probably received too much attention and it makes people uncomfortable. On your first time here you don't want to be george - so he wouldn't leave her? cowlicks - he was polite but trying trent - what happened? cowlicks - unresolved. letr's talk offline. lxpk - whenever we mention what safe space is, tries to mention this. this is the way safe space issues happen mostly. in our discussions of safe spaces, we need to draw attention to it. noisebridge historically has had a couple people who are beloved but monopolizes peoples' times. it's not something most people are aware of. cowlicks - yeah, we should do that. lxpk - should maybe be on the safe space . luke - there's an ambiguity around what it means to be excellent and it's interesting because there's a big issue around social and emotional labor. there's a burden especially put on women about emotional labor. Maybe we should add a bit more clearness about what it means to be excellent. some people may feel like it's excellent to give other people all of their time. there's guilt wrapped up in it. the safe space stuff is all about trent - we have idioms, like "this person won't leave me alone". cowlicks - but also she didn't ask him to leave alone. lizzie - george - can say "we can just go to the bathroom" cowlicks - we need to make it explicit that the dude has to fuck off. luke - to do it with kindness is important. cowlicks ryan - it can definitely be a disability lxpk - some people have a disability but it's often just obliviousness. maybe you can put on headphones. cowlicks - don't want to put more emphasis about what the person being bothered should do. people aren't culpable for some kind of annoyances and bothering people but they are if we make them aware of it. I think most people are culpable but ignorant. lxpk - other than the safe space discussions, how do we make this known widely? greeting people is a good place. we should bring up "don't monopolize time". cowlicks - I have. and also point out anti-harassment policy. please bring it up giving a tour, especially if it's a dude. thex - along those lines, the headphone thing, it would be nice if there was a general understood signal for "I'm here, I have something to do". ryan - yeah. cowlicks - it's not the responsibility of the person being harassed to signal that they need to be bother it. thex - if it was understood that we have these headphones we could do it. it's somewhat common practice for bartenders to have codes. creating a social situation awareness or a safeword. juan - on the door there's a piece of paper with blakc and yellowish text about how we have an anti-harassment policy and how if people are hanging around others it's not excellent. signs are a good way to advocate outside meetings. cowlicks - direct response. but we have hundreds of thousand signs around noisebridge. we should point that out more. thex - good. ryan - so, I understand both points. it shouldn't be the problem of the one being harassed to respond. but also there needs to be an ability for them if no one else has noticed to raise attention. we need to make it happen as little as possible but no amount of training . lizzie - leaving will always be easier than weird cultural headphones things. marky - on a certain level it's the person's being harassed's responsibility. we need to create a safe space by allowing people to tell each other to fuck off. you don't know if she was actually bothered. (augur - this is a queue not a stack) cowlicks - direct response. we have a problem at noisebridge where there's very few women. there aren't going to be more women coming to the space to use tools. women are expected to be passive and nice and it's much easier to leave than to tell them to fuck off. we need to explain to people that you can be monopolizing someone's time without trying to bother them. you should give people space, especially if it's their first time here and they want to leave. george - when I came here two weeks ago, I was uncomfortable because I didn't know anyone here. passing someone off and leaving them alone sometimes makes people uncomfortable. marky - who was more aware of the harassment policy - the new person or the person talking? cowlicks - it would have been great if she had felt like she could say that. but these are nuanced situations. it can make the space unwelcoming and I don't think if someone comes to noisebridge to do something. this is a nuanced thing and it's something that that person should have realized. we need to train our community a little better and police ourselves. george - can we have a girl show them the space? trent - I don't think that makes any sense. the anti-harassment policy specifically says that it includes persistent, uninvited communication. that's harassments. your (cowlicks) perception is that it was persistent and uninvited. do people always mention the anti-harassment policy on tours (lizzie, cowlicks, jarrod, thex (mentioning it)). I think the fact that there is one luke - the boilerplate is there, and it doesn't get contested, but the things that stick we can really emblazon in the space. trent - there are signs. luke - but there are bigger things. trent - maybe we need anti-harassment art? luke - bmw plant has little signs for don't talking to it. maybe we can circumvent social problems with lizzie - nobody reads signs. well-known phemomeon. trent - but pointing to signs is useful. ben - noticed it when he went to the bathroom and thought it was cool, as a newer person. augur - these are jarrod's sign. cowlicks and lizzie like em. ben - but it's on the left, so it's hard to see when you're coming in. jarrod - maybe the time has passed, but I feel like the conversation was verring into "the what are the responsibilities of the person being harassed". regardless of their responsibilities, what can noisebridge do to lessen that occurence? that's where this discussion should be, not "should someone say something". thex - the thing that iv'e heard between most all of this is the awareness factor. unawarness is the culprit. if it's part of the tour or the and part of the community standards, if that was like the top-level thing and this was more readily discussed. to me that's something very different from safe spaces. be aware that people monopolize times intentionally and unintentionally, but that's not quite about safe spaces. cowlicks - would like to push the fact that this is a safe space issue. giving people unwanted attention *is* harassment. it makes people feel like it's not a safe space. lxpk - jc (thex) was saying it's not a safe space. I think it might not register in peoples' heads as a safe space issue. but the sign deserves to be big. maybe a comic. lizzie - we should talk about what we can do outside of specifics of sign-making. thex - let's continue this afterwards. trent says we're at the end of the stack. thanks trent for taking stack! ** ryan - wiki different meeting probably. lxpk - it would be nice to have a concise hand-held handout to contain all this. infospaces have zines. the zine from longhaul infoshop might be a cool thing to have. we could talk about it more. but it would be cool tot ake