Meeting Notes 2020 03 03

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These are the notes from the The 573th Meeting of Noisebridge.

Shit's getting real (estate)

Date: March 3, 2020

Note-takers: Nthmost (Naomi), others

Moderators: Lemons (Andy)

Top Points[edit]

  • We have about 60 days from now (right now) to move out of our space.
  • Yes, we have talked to the landlord. They want to sell the building. We need to get out.
  • We got a big-ass donation from Kraken, though! So that's good.
  • 1077 Howard might be a good place to land our hacker spaceship. Other places are under consideration.


  • Mom of this guy -- sociologist and teacher at university. Been here 1 year.
  • This guy - Ben -- computer science, robotics, woodworking. Been here many times and wanted to attend the mtg. NB is Awesome.
  • Lemons -- been here since 2014. Place where diff't creative projects can happen. Laser trainer sometimes.
  • Nthmost -- Been here seen 2009, loves that noisebridge constantly reinvents itself
  • Tiffany - she/her - freecodecamp meetups and sewing
  • Ryan -- he/him - been here a few years, help w/ VR area and trying to tak e care of NB
  • Andrew - - new, checking it out
  • Steve - he/him - 7 years here. Theoretical physicist. Machine learning.
  • Robert - - work on hardware, conncet w/ friends
  • Tinnae - - speaks very softly...
  • John - - software/hardware
  • Chris - he/him - came here b/c of a skillshare, anarchist bookfair. Came here 8 years ago and just came back a few months ago. Music hacking.
  • Wheezy - he/him - professional fortnighter
  • Tyler - he/him - been coming here for about a year. Treasurer. Like working on stuff i don't know anything about
  • Keiarra - - running a hydroponics initiative. Thursdays!! (instead of Tuesdays). love nb b/c i worked at an inventor space in Austin. Enjoy the community. Ask me about various machines and i probably know
  • Sophia - she/her/they/them - been here a year or so. Used to work more on physical stuff, more recently more software.
  • James - - 3 years here on/off. software engineer by training but doing more with hardware lately.
  • Mark (remote) - games and Arch guildmaster
  • Robert N.(remote) He him/Dude/hey Teacher for circuit Hacking monday and love to garden
  • malik - usually in the church on my dbl screens

Short announcements and events[edit]

60-second description per item in bulletpoint.

  • Come to Circuit Hacking Monday: Goal of the class is to use Python and Javascript to interact with IOT devices. Come learn the basics as well(no need to know much{only how to google}).
  • Free Code Camp will be meeting every Thursday 11am - 4:30pm-ish in the Hackitorium starting this week! This is in addition to the Tuesday meetups.
  • Ryan: NB is still planning to host some GDC events! People are still coming into town for this even though GDC was canceled due to coronavirus. One is the Sat before GDC March 14th, 9am to 10pm w/ break for Godwaffle Noisepancakes. Event Friday night "GDC detox" 8pm-3am. Interest in hosting 5MoF on the 3rd Thursday. (Naomi would help with that!)
  • Trying to do a Fundraiser for Friday -- contact luda on Slack to help out or just to find out more. Let's put it on Meetup.
  • Wheezy - did you vote, you dirty anarchists?!?!??!?!
  • Tyler - We're hosting Hack Comedy this Saturday night. Victor is out of town, but co hosts will be hosting.
  • @KEIARRA ? DIY Gardening meeting will be taking place on Thurs instead of Tues(?confirm time?). Proposals for workshops: Natural remedies. Ask-give Circles.
  • Sophia - x86 Assembly class-q? Steve would go that, fuck yeah. TLBs and other acronyms as well.
  • Ryan - there's interest in starting GUI-based LaTeX class. Couple months from now.


Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.

  • Steve - we're neuroatypicals, and sometimes we grate on each other. Let's be mindful of that. Don't act on your base instincts all the time. Be your best self! Talk to people.
  • Lemons - everybody at NB can and should participate in NB.


Everyone at Noisebridge is a participant at Noisebridge. (What does that mean? How do you get a door key? Access to Slack, Discuss, etc?)

  • Ryan - participation can mean many things, from just being in the space or hosting a class, an event, helping others in the space w/ work or joining a larger NB project. Participate online through Slack, discuss, mailing list, etc. If you want to get into the space more regularly, ask for a 30-day access token. 10am to 11pm every day.


A Philanthropist at Noisebridge has earned enough trust from the community to open and close the space.

No new applications.

Membership Binder [edit]

Membership in Noisebridge entails community Trust in Consensus.

No new applications.

Financial Report[edit]

Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and thrive, yo.

  • Been breaking even on month-to-month costs lately. Large drops in cash are explainable by events.
  • $160K worth of crypto
  • $151 in bank

Most flush we've ever been...

Fundraising Update[edit]

How's it all going

  • We just got airlifted a huge sum by @kraken, 17.61337 btc. Like ~$155K if we cashed it now. Thanks for Tweeting us to victory, John!

GuildMaster's Report[edit]

How organized is Noisebridge?

The current state of organization at Noisebridge is: moderate? Definitely getting better and healthier.

What are guilds? A totally optional layer of bureaucracy on top of normal, anarchy noisebridge should anyone want to participate and improve their organizational skills. Can't stress enough that guilds DO NOT IMPOSE RULES ON NOISEBRIDGE AS A WHOLE. They simply aid in moving conversations and improvements along.

Online comms:

   We have a public Discourse forum! Sign up and chat!
   We have Slack! Get to know some Members, maybe you'll get invited!
   There is a Wiki! 
- Guild Reports -


Let's have a discussion here about the definition of guilds and further refine the idea:

While I HIGHLY recommend going and doing Wiki edits yourself, I've established a thread on discuss where you can dump links to outdated wiki info, should you feel lazy or unable to. We'll monitor it and update things as we can.

Do we need a weekly meeting time? (Could be online) Will that incentivize people to join this group?


Lots of activity here. Nothing formal really defined, but lots of communication happening on Slack and organizational improvements made. Items being organized. Dustcollector! Currently trying to figure out how to physically document all the new improvements.

Are there any woodshop classes? Or planned ones?


We have been learning Godot Engine at our Wednesday classes! We started reading a game design book as a group! Still doing Unity development every Thursday night!

-New-Space There is a LOT of discussion happening about moving. There should be meetings happening every Wed. at 6PM in hackitorium. Some tours will be happening this Thurs afternoon!

-Philosophy We had an 18-person discussion about metamodernism around the table at SparkleForge. It was AMAZING! We're gonna keep doing this every other week on Wednesdays at 8pm. Here are the notes:

-Other Other guilds are in a transient state. Working on getting more organization and info for Electronics, Music, Sewing, etc If you have a guild idea, talk to me! (Mark on Slack and Discuss)

Any other guilds want to report anything? Hydroponics?


Consensus is how the Noisebridge Membership may change how Noisebridge works.

Proposals from last week [edit]

(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the Consensus Items History page.)

Proposals for next week [edit]

(Add any new items for consensus to the Current Consensus Items page.)

From | February 28, 2020 | Tyler Maran | Setting Hold positions for crypto currency | Noisebridge will never maintain more than 20% of it's total liquid assets (cash and equivalents) in crypto currency.

I am suggesting this in light of the $156,000 BTC donation from Kraken. Which brings our BTC to more than 50% of our current assets.

This check will be assessed quarterly (in line with fiscal quarters) and balances greater than 20% would be liquidated.

20% will be a maximum number, and not a target number. i.e. if we increase cash balances we will not buy crypto to maintain that ratio. It is just a measurement of our maximum acceptable risk. | Tyler Maran

Ryan: this can actually affect 501c3, because it's...

Tyler: ...called "speculative investments". If we receive it as a donation that might be ok, but we're supposed to be a relatively safe financial store, NOT for risking that money for investments.

Lemons: Was 20% the legal maximum or the level of acceptable risk for NB as a commnunity?

Tyler: No hard legal % I am aware of. Thats just a starting talking pt number. I'm ok with 10-15% (lower risk) and ok with higher. Want to hear from the crypto folk in the community. ppl have noted

Sophia: would the KRaken folks be mad if we cahsed it to $$?

Tyler: Nah they actually tried to give us $$ first!

Tyler: You can write off the value of what you donated in taxes, so if you donate BTC you can write off for the amount you evaluated it.

John: Huge valuable insight. Fact that a crypto org can avoid a big tax event and donate to a nonprofit, and be able to write off the difference, that's huge for fundraising.

Lemons: anyone want to play with the %s here?

Ryan: since btc fluctuates so much, might be better to say a certain SCALAR number of bitcoin. TRansaction fees might get racked up for keeping things at a particular %.

Tyler: that's why i put Assessed Quarterly in the consensus proposal. Wouldn't just keep selling it, we'd check it each quarter.

K: so do we worry about cap gains tax?

Tyler: nope, nonprofits can invest. Has to be a well-researched investment. E.g. std mutual funds.

Steve: I disagree with what Ryan said about it being a fixed amount, I think it should be a fixed %. We can afford to risk great # of crypto if we have a greater amt of $$.

John: we could do a dollar-cost-avg sell as a check against the volatility.

Ryan: OK sounds like % is better than scalar.

J: Worth considering broadening this from just crypto all the way to securities?

Tyler: Yeah i think that's a good idea. We can call it markable securities, including crypto.

Wheezy: What should be the % be? IMHO, 20%?

Tyler: Wait i wannt restate. the first thing i threw out was 20%... but i don't think we should do the same for all securities. if we end up 6 mos from now break-even on cash and $200k not being touched, then we should invest that with a reasonable return (3-5%, something safe). Could pay a month of rent on interest alone. Don't want to keep us from that option in the future. Would say focus on a single security or cryptocurrency.

Naomi: So we shouldn't rewrite this to broaden the scope?

Tyler: yes or if we do rewrite, make it crypto plus a single security.

Ryan: We want to be able to quickly figure out what to do with donations like [the one from Kraken] so we don't have to do a full consensus item with it. So like "at mtg after large donation, we talk about what percentage we leave as security."

Lemons: anybody have more-informed opinions on the topic of investments?

Tyler: I did investment management, soooooo......

Tyler: I would recommend and be most comfortable with 15%. I was expecting more pushback.

Naomi: We are not knowledgeable to push back (This is why you are treasurer).

Lemons: anybody have a principled objection to 20%?

John: <long sigh>

Lemons: Explain your long sigh!

John: I dunno, why 15%?

Tyler: Not a big reason. We could try and math it, look at what long-term risk/reward we want. It's likely if we sold down to 20% right now, we'd end up 15% naturally (cash would grow faster than crypto)

John: what's NB's annual?

Tyler: cash burn last year was $45k (a lot of that was paying Scandiuzzi-Krebs). Financial sponsorship of Roguelike.

Wheezy: How about 15%, because according to, 13% of nonprofit income goes to investment.

Naomi: that's income tho, not holdings...??

Tyler: I'll change it up and we'll have 2 more weeks of consensus on this (since it'll be changed).

Lemons tries to end the meeting early.

Loud protests! We still have discussion items to do!!


  • John: Donor recognition
  • Ryan: related fundraising.
  • Tyler: Existential Crisis
  • Mark(Remote): Can/should we buy stair wheelchair lifts? Depending on timeframe and possible move what about a mobile stairlift?

How Best to Respond to Big Donations[edit]

  • John: We should be better at follow-ups when we get big donations. Saying thank you, taking for a tour, maybe doing photos, putting something on the website. High-leverage for NB, shows donors they are recognized.
  • Ryan: YEAH! Sounds like you want to join our fundraising outreach team. This involves media interaction. I read the articles published, saw a lot of good things but also some bad things said by people here. Could screw up future donor relations. We have training for this.
  • John: Like waht?
  • Ryan: Someone mentioned an am't we had already in our bank account already. Screws up our relations w/ landlords.

<Tyler makes faces>

  • Ryan: even the title of the thing... No, they weren't "saved". the donation helps us but it doesn't save us.
  • John: we didn't have control over the responses.
  • Naomi: yeah it was just the narrative that emerged. you said "Help help we need $150K" and got $150K.
  • Ryan: we want to have ppl come who are trained w/ fundraising. It's handy Ruth and you were here, but.
  • John: I hear you.
  • Ryan: Let's do a training day. We all speak for NB in a way.
  • Tyler: I'm not super worried about the statements about what's in our bank account. Landlords ask for bank reports anyway. But the news article in itself
  • Naomi: info compromises your negotiating position no matter what. Even small.
  • Lemons: are we good? discuss more?
  • Tyler: Chiming in on the openness thing, I don't think having a donor logo acknowledgement on our website is a big deal. Would a highest-donation list on our page be cool?
  • Sophia: it's not like an ad. People don't go to the NB page and see Kraken there and buy something.

Ryan: During fundraising mtgs, we came up with a detailed document on speaking back to donations. That was over a year ago, the community's changed a bit. Some people are very sensitive about this in terms of ideals. We want to be careful; can't promise even putting up a logo. I know that some people would paint over a logo put up in NB no matter what. But we should definitely be thanking donors as long as it doesn't compromise our standards. Don't give companies any leverage over us.

Ryan: Kraken could say they make up 50% of our bank account.

Lemons: did Kraken ask for any of this?

John: I talked w/ the Kraken CEO, he has run a nonprofit and knows it's hard. They weren't expecting anything.

Lemons: I think out of that list of things you stated, welcoming and thanking and giving them a tour and thankful 3LEETS gratefulness, those should be done.

Tyler: I'd be happy doing a product placement video that's so outrageously over the top. Like someone w/ a Kraken mug saying "we don't accept product placement."

Chris: It does feel like advertising though. I'd be curious what those donors might think.

John: I don't think Kraken and Handshake were expecting exposure. I was trying to introduce the narrative that NB is surrounded by startups that wish they had NB's coolness.

Naomi: There's an aspect of this where we might be demotivating small donations by putting large donations on display.

    • general agreement that we should have a statement about accepting donations on OUR terms, with no guarantees provided**

Ryan: we should have a new rush of people getting involved in fundraising! More people should know how we've agreed to talk about Noisebridge.

John: If i were to make a PR to some part of the infrastructure as a donor page, should i

Mark: Unrelated: there is a fundraising guild:

Ryan : all related pages ranks 111,347 in the USA (Actually all of

Tyler Gets Real (Estate)[edit]

<Tyler has been dealing with the landlord and the DBI. He gives everybody a 2-page handout explaining why we absolutely have to move in 60 days or less.>


  • Noisebridge will probably have to move, but for real this time. Like really, for real this time.
  • Sprinkler system is not up to par for us to be F1 categorized. "Hot work" includes woodworking, soldering, certain sizes of sewing machines, almost everything we do at NB. Proposal was to
  • First a problem in 2017, we got busted for building Sparkleforge w/o a permit (which we thought was OK b/c there were no load-bearing walls). We submitted a 5-year sprinkling cert showing the partially-sprinkled state of the NB. Talked to Jarrod about a year ago. We didn't know the full extent of the ugprades needed. Got a quote for $20-40K from Flowmasters, so we had that number in our heads. Jarrod also believed that a second exit would have been acceptable. But from talking to the DBI, the bldg has to be fully sprinklered on all floors, including the basement.
  • Per Brian Ho, our landlord, he said it'd be more than $150K. Which is why John tweeted about $150K (and got it!). But when we asked what % we'd have to contribute, he said "I'm not interested" once and he also said "I can't afford it." The 2nd-floor tenant is gone and they haven't even listed that floor up for rent. Kinda seems like they're trying to sell.
  • Also, re: elevator: Naomi found out that it hasn't had a permit to operate since 2014.

Tyler: i think someone cut the lock to let Oh Happy Day use it. Now it has a U-lock (ours). A couple of months ago (before U-lock) some people came up on the elevator after it had been shut down, b/c (presumably) Brian had turned it back on.

Tyler: so have 2 options...

Naomi: I have another option, we can just keep doing what we're doing.

Chris: $150K was donated to save the space, I think we should honor the intention.

John: Oh we have the option to use the $150K for whatever. I talked to the CEO.

Ryan: The tweet was "we need $150K if we want to stay here" ...

(guy): sounds like the landlord isn't being cooperative here. No am't of money will solve all the problems.

Tyler: It's a crazy long road to

Naomi: the Reboot was all about fixing violations. And we fixed all of them. And raised all the money we needed.

Tyler: All that resource will go into the basement, it'll be a little sad.

Naomi: do you see any hope in buying the building?

Tyler: $10-12M tho

Naomi: it's just money! Right, John?

John: <taken aback>

Chris: I'd like to know the results of today, the hearing. It may just be the landlord doesn't want to deal with it.

Lemons: the landlord has been batting us around as tenants, given us the come here + stop mixed-signal for many years now.

Tyler: Yeah. Multiple one-year leases. We can't trust that anything that they're saying will hold more than a minute.

Like deja vu... this happened 5 years ago, it happened a year ago. We should stop thinking about staying here. The landlord is definitely messing w/ us.

Naomi: We should buy a building.

Tyler: I was talking to John Shutt. He was saying that a group of ppl like NB, with all the people and equipment and cash in our pocket, were to fail at starting a new hackerspace it'd be embarrassing.

Chris: A difficult landlord isn't always something we can do away with by moving. Maybe it'd be better to try to shift their consciousness instead of running.

Lemons: Respectfully maybe you should learn more before commenting. <Chris protests.>

Sophia: Buying a building sounds nice. If you wanted to buy a space like this, $8M. Feels like buying a building would b

J: Strongly reiterate buying is a long-term goal. Mechanics Institute. Fencing place. These places survive boom/bust of real estate b/c they own the space.

Wheezy: if we're looking into places to buy, it's gonna be difficult where we're looking. Mission, SOMA, etc. So if we want to look at places maybe we'd go south.

Ryan: actually it's a lot easier to buy in the Mission, even on Market. One of my friends from Oakland posted a place at ... we've always had a plan of buying a building, we were going to have opt-to-buy on a potential place on Guerrero last year. $4-8M is our range to look for. If we work with the city, we can get even a 100-year payment plan.

Naomi: and state grants to buy buildings! We have a good relationship with the city now.

Ryan: but yes, look into locations. Add it to the #new-space discussion.

Tyler: Opt to buy is great. Owning a building like this is ridiculous, what are we, landlords? Guerrero would have been the right kind of place. But yes, we should set fundraising goals around buying something.

John: Yeah. Response to the narrative around the Kraken donation: it's actually OK to say "actually, landlords are the issue."

Tyler: So, this meeting today... within 30 days, the landlord has to say he's fixing the notice of violation, like a contractor saying they're going to remove Sparkleforge, or alternatively we'd remove everything hot work from NB and just pursue the same permit that we had. Either way he's going to reject the permit application to build Sparkleforge and submit another one based on getting a contractor in to tear down Sparkleforge.

Naomi: Oh well.

Tyler: Until we move we have to stop doing "hot work" at NB, or at least until we get inspected on it. According to the city we were supposed to stop when the notice of violation was issued. Dunno what the enforcement is like, but pretty sure that if a contractor comes in and sees its still being used for hot work, they'll say they can't submit the plan b/c it's being used wrong. Within 30 days he has to say they're working on it, and then 90 days to actually DO the work.

So our moving timeline is like 60 days. FROM NOW

John: to Naomi's point, just doing it anyways... the elevator is broken. We could just claim the equipment is "off".

Tyler: sure, we could red-tag things.

Tyler reporting for Alice Townes: It would be best if the kiln and welders were just not here. The kiln and welders aren't even allowed on the city block.

Tyler: Inspector said we should have been an H1 space (hazardous materials) but we are only an F1 space.

John: are we actively being investigated, or is the city kinda luckluster about this?

Tyler: somewhere in the middle. we're in the paperwork.

Jeremy: Soooo what's about to happen?

Tyler: if we can find a place to move to, we'll put all our toys in a closet and then we will move. Tool use will have to stop.

Ryan: This is what could happen in 60 days. It could happen sooner. If the landlord was really on the ball, he could get something to city hall tomorrow, getting ppl looking at the space by Monday, if he wanted. But what we can do, if someone says they're with the city, they don't need to be let in right away. They need to give us notice ahead of time. But can Brian let ppl in?

Tyler: I think building inspectors can come in at any time. If they had to give you 24 hour notice

Sophia: Eli

Chris: so have we actually talked to the landlord recently?

Tyler: Yeah. Landlord told the city TODAY that he was going to take the actions above. Also:

Jeremy: So we're looking for

Ahmed: If we're being told

Chris: if we talk to the landlord and get the work done we can offer to pay for the sprinkler system....

Tyler: He said he wasn't interested.

Chris: When did he say that?

Tyler: 2 weeks ago. But also, would we WANT to do that?

Lemons: right like in exchange for a 10 year lease.

Tyler: since he hasn't been willing to give us more than a 1-year lease, seems unlikely.

Lemons: the question is, to Chris's point, is it worth asking the landlord for the 10-year lease.

<Tyler reiterates things he probably wrote down on the handout everyone has had in front of them this whole time.>

Tinnae: If we were to move, would we make sure it has all the features we want?

Tyler: Yes definitely. Looking for F1 (I thought H1, no? need clarification) <(good point) occupancy, ADA, etc. Look on #new-space on slack. PDR (Production, distribution, repair)

half of your minds is thinking, it's cool, we can stay, etc. It's not. This back-and-forth, we should move forward on leaving. Don't think too much, just prepare to go. This keeps happening.

(guy): Even if i support staying, we're risking a lot by not having a plan B. So we can try to call the bluff but we'd better have a backup plan.

Jeremy: I know of the space we'll probably be talking about in the next section. But we really should give the floor to all the opinions right now.

Sophia: Ppl have mentioned this: if we're gonna move the laser cutter, we can't w/o an elevator. Looks like in any case we'll have to move the laser cutter and if the elevator isn't fixed what do we do?

Tyler: the actual construction that needs to happen, there are high odds it'll be fixed. Brian has been told that we need it to be able to move out. ALSO, contractors don't like stairs! They're going to want an elevator, and want to be able to check that it is really

Naomi: YEAH so how likely is THAT to happen? The elevator status is officially Uniquely Fucked.

Tyler: Yeah, the landlord is pretty reactive and might not be able to hack that timeline. We'll see.

Lemons: are there any other worth it options for staying here

Tyler: one immediate question we can ask is - what if we have $150k for the sprinkler, can we upadte the lease?

Luke: if for some reason we didn't get kick out, can we get the money back?

Javier: is there a way that we have the notes a year ago

Jeremy: New space opportunities - gonna talk about a new space that is awesome. But I need to find what we need to hear that would be a NO GO on a new space.

Chris: I see some contrast between our current space and the new space. This space has a particular identity. There is someone who has high price corporate clients who wants to use us to legitimize himself. And I hope we have a better option.

Javier: Do you mean in regards to the 1077 space?

Tyler: 1077 Howard is rented by Alpay, a Noisebridger who makes interactive installation designs for other companies

Luke: obviously omni commons is a different situation, but the hackerspace collectivized with a group of organizations

Ryan: direct response - yes we are open to that. Some of our associates are at the redstone building. A lot of non-profits need more space. We should do a call out for space sharing to other non-profits. A couple years ago we talked about subletting to other non profits.

Tyler: I got reached out to from Redstone about doing a split space. Raises a NB intermingling type thing.. NB has its anarchistic way of running things, making changes to the space. How much would be shared? Would they be cool with how we run things? wrt Omni - sudo room is kinda small, easier type of space to attain and community to manage. We'd take up half the building. Is this NB's building or whose?

Jeremy: I think it's a great idea to do a shared non-profit space.

Naomi: There are definitely drawbacks to being part of Omni-commons. They have things that they like and don't like, and you have to participate in the broader governance structure. It's like living with roomates.

Princton Guy: co habitation sounds like a big challenge

Naomi: gauranteeing continuity is definitly a challenge

Ahmad: I disagree about staying here. I agree about losing our identity.

Jeremy: I was here when we spoke with 1077 who said he would be a co-tennant. We would be in the first floor while he would be in the second floor. It would be similar to us having interactions with oh happy day. It's just another tenant in the building.

Ryan: I do want to clarify for a bit - that we were talking about 20-30,000 sqft where we could section out big spaces for Noisebridge. Like the redstone building, where there are separate offices with separate offices.

Luke: there iis an economy of scale. So the idea is ok. If the organizatios are synergistic enough. SYNERGYYYYYYYY

(Mark)To Chris's earlier point: If we 'allow' someone to co-exist in a building with us, is that the same thing as "using us to legitimize himself"?

Lemon: Organizing that would take a long time.

Tyler: was gonna say the same as Lemons

Jeremy: I see Alpay as landlord, tenant, and Noisebridger. He would donate some equipment with distinction that it's NB's...

Javier: He seems like he would be pretty cool, but I would like to make sure it's wrapped up in writing ^We could use Alice and/or someone with legal experience's legal help drafting up some language. ^ yup - alice will help draft up lease / subtennant agreements Ryan: Part of the reason that he got that space was becasue of Noisebridge. The Shop closed down, and he came to noisebridge to work. And that is saved his buisess. He could hire people from NB to help him with projects. He understands NB.

Naomi: It's important to understand that we are comparing 1077 to what we have now. THIS is what a normal landlord looks like right here. It's tenuous. 1077 howard street sounds like a much more condusive place if we have to rent a place because he knows the culture.

Lemons: To clarify - what's the rent on this 1077 space?

Tyler: We said $8000 at one point and I think he was okay with that. It's 5000 sqft. Basement might not be usable by us. (Is basement part of that 5k sqft?) Contractors looked and the stairs are super sketchy. You have to duck to get under the stairs to get in. It's super tenuous space, might be just for storage. Or else do construction on the entrance. Height of entrance is the issue, could be concrete issue. He has a 10 + 10 lease right now. It's a risk: he's bleeding money right now. He's paying $18000/month. What if he can't make his cut? What if his business folds? There's going to be construction costs - restrooms are abysmal. His business is quite tenuous.

Chris: Some ppl in that neighborhood say buildings lay vacant there for long time. SoCal hackerspace was subletting from another renter, had to move out when the other renter went under.

Lemons: Agreed, but better than current situation. Any landlord who would rent to us - can't do better than one of our own community.

Jeremy: Direct response - everything will be explicit when we draw the agreement. Also don't know what life would look like if

Naomi: I want to mention one aspect about moving that no one mentioned. There will be a bit of attricion. Cash donations would go down. Membership would likely go down.

Ryan: we are keeping accessibility in mind. We will have attricion. but we will be able to keep our membership going. Noisebridge will survive. There are more options if we move, less options if we stay.

Tyler: There are more spaces than just 1077. I don't want to hype yet but the building behind NB - 6000 sqft for $9000/month. Seems too good to be true, but we're going to tour it on Thursday. 2 ADA restrooms. 20ft ceilings. Could turn out to be $9000 per FLOOR ($18000/month).

Lemon: it's late! Taking myself out after this question. Is there any point where saying to the landlord "Hey would we be able to pay for $150k for the sprinklers in exchange for a 10 year lease"

Tyler: I could be the one to ask the landlord. Is it worth asking? Is it worth doing? Is it possible that Brian foot the bill of construction onto us?

Naomi: We built ALL these walls! We knocked down some walls. We did so much to the space!

Tyler: Actual violation is Sparkleforge and ventilation.

Lemons: Even though we were in here with sledgehammers!

Wheezy: So we're gonna move in 60 days? Who's going to put in the time and effort in moving stuff?

Naomi: It took at least 50 ppl to move last time. We had to rally, and get everybody on the same page. This is the importance of having a good community where people all talk to each other. No one's getting paid. Be Excellent!

Tyler: We pretty much need a project manager.

Naomi: I'm not worried. We'll come together!

Mark: There are people who will step up. I'll be one.

Naomi: Took us about a month and a half to move out of 2169 Mission st, revamp and clean it, and move back in.

Jeremy: Let's get all the objections out.

Naomi: It's 11pm! You guys can keep talking.

Tyler: Just to get us all on the same page, I'll ask Brian. If he says no,

Naomi: Have we offered to buy?

Ryan: I think he once said like $12 million?

Naomi: It seems like Brian's parents are trying to get this building sold. It's an investment property. If we can prove to them that it's worth it to sell now rather than to keep, maybe they'll do it?

Tyler: Commercial tenants do not have same rules as residential tenants. We cannot just squat.

Wheezy: its time to bounce

Jeremy: What do we need to do right now to get everyone on board

Naomi- bring stuff up every week at meeting

Mark: Make sure everyone is aware online and discussing there too

Chris: We may lose legitimacy if we move because of the narrative of getting $150K as being for staying in the same space. People may talk about NB negatively due to articles on the internet.

Ryan: NNnnah we're under no obligation there and the article had the title the editors put on it. It's money the John got for Noisebirdge, not money that Noisebridge made a deal to get. We need more ppl involved with media outreach. John stepped up. I'm redoing video stuff. Wheezy has a video tour coming up. This donation means a lot but i doubt we'll be able to pay for the sprinklers anyway. $150K covers a YEAR of $!0K/month rent anywhere in this city. We have much more incentive to use this money for something other than fixing this building. The landlord could say "thanks for fixing the building, now get out!"

(guy): My selfish reason is, a robotics group came here and looked for a place to move. They lost a lot of members by moving.

Lemons: I don't know how many times we've gone over these topics, like every 6 months. We have this frog-in-a-pot sense of maybe if we stay it'll be ok. The landlord is about to do this 60 day thing, etc. the amount of problems w/ this place that doesn't get us anything in terms of a better relationship with landlord.

Tyler: Landlord could sell it after we repair building and then we sue them for breach of contract, but then we're homeless and in a lawsuit. Whee.

Multiple: we have seen this many times. This discussion

Ryan : We need a statement

Naomi: This can be done through small c concensus

lets come up with wording for a slack post

There is to much risk in entertaining the idea that we could stay past the 60 days.

Make it positive

we buy building or we leave (current option to stay)

The meeting ended but people kept talking

other items moved to next meeting if relevent.

End of Meeting[edit]