Meeting Notes 2020 11 17
These are the notes from the The XXXth Meeting of Noisebridge.
- Live notes: https://pad.riseup.net/p/nbmeeting
These are the notes from the The XXXth Meeting of Noisebridge.
- Live notes: https://pad.riseup.net/p/nbmeeting
- Zoom: https://zoom.us/j/972291454
- Call: ###-###-#### (TODO: Escritoire ala Secretary 🗄 (talk) 07:36, 11 August 2020 (UTC))
- Date: November 17th MMXX
- Note-takers: Pyconaut and others
- Moderators: pyconaut
- 1 Meeting Summary
- 2 Pre-Amble
- 3 Main-Meeting
- 4 End of Meeting
FILL OUT AT END OF MEETING AND SEND TO MAILING LIST One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary. TLDR what happened at the meeting:
- New philanthropists:
- New members:
- Consensus Items:
- Discussion Items:
Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.
(What does that mean? How does the Anti-Harassment Policy fit into this? Are we SURE we know what being Excellent is? This is an important and fundamental conversation at Noisebridge, so let's give it like 120 seconds.)
Excellence is about caring for yourself, others, the space, and the community, it is about calling out when you see something wrong, and being available to help others. Being excellent can be doing things like taking out the trash, fixing a broken machine, cleaning up one of the areas, etc. As long as you follow the one rule, you will be welcome at noisebridge. We also have a Strict antiharassment policy, so if you are making people feel harassed through your actions, you will be asked to leave.
Everyone at Noisebridge is a participant at Noisebridge.
(What does that mean? How do you get a door key? Access to Slack, Discuss, etc?)
Dan- Participation at noisebridge is using the sppace and be excelent while using the space. This can be talking a class, teaching a class, helping others. Even though we are closed, we still have a lot of ways people can help out. Including volunteering to help build out the new space.
But if you think that the action or project might disturb others, please go through small c consensus and ask the community before you take any actions. Once you come by for a bit and gain some trust from the community, you can ask for a 30 day access token which will get you in the noisebridge door from 10am to 11pm for 30 days (then it then needs to be renewed). You can also participate digitally through our different online systems- noisebridge slack- ask around noisebridge discuss https://discuss.noisebridge.info/ noisebridge wiki https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/ noisebridge meetup https://www.meetup.com/noisebridge/ noisebridge discord- ask around noisebridge maling list- being redevolped
A Philanthropist at Noisebridge has earned enough trust from the community to open and close the space.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Philanthropists? How do you become one? etc)
Philathropist is someone who donates to noisebridge, often money ($40-$80) You must be a trusted person in the community. You have to have One big M Member sign off on you. At a tuesday meeting it will be discussed, and you will be questioned. you get 24/7 access. It can be revoked by the community if you are shown to be unexcellent. You need to know how to open the space, close the space, give tours, and explain what noisebridge is.
Membership in Noisebridge entails community Trust in Consensus.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Members? How do you become a Member? etc)
Big M Members are different from just being a member of the community, this is the highest trust level of the noisebridge community, it means that everyone in the community trusts that you would make good decisions about how noisebridge can move forward. This is an annoying bureocratic level of trust, as the only theoretical benefit is that you get to block big C concensus items, and vote on who we be placed on our board. To become one, you need to go through a four week process, where you fill out a membership form sponsored by two big M members. You bring it to a tuesday meeting where it is submitted, your membership will be discussed at that meeting, then at the next tuesday meeting your membership is discussed again and if it gets to concensus, you will be asked to leave the room while the members present (or by proxy) decide if they want to block you or not, if no Member blocks your membership application you become a Member. For the next two weeks any big M member can retroactivly block your membership for any reason. If you get blocked figure out why, fix the issue and then reapply at a later time.
Consensus is how the Noisebridge Membership may change how Noisebridge works.
(How does Consensus work? What types of things are good for formal Consensus? What is small-c consensus? What is a "block"?)
concensus is the process by which things that can't be done through basic do-ocracy (things that affect others in the space.) It has two flavors, small c and big C. Small c concensus is the process where things that might cause slight issues in the space (events, big projects, moving rooms, etc), you just talk with the community before doing things. Big C concensus is the process by which action are taken at noisebridge that are too big, too expensive, or too critical to be done by small c concensus. These are things like Moving, spending a lot of money, or doing legal bureucratic garbage. This is a two week+ process where an item is propsed one week (if possible you should already have the item posted in draft concensus items, and the binder). At that meeting it will be discussed for a while, then the next week it will be discussed again, and if people feel confident, it will be brought up for concencus, and if no big M member blocks the consensus item it passes and becomes a Consensed item.
Pyconaut- he/ him - Doing VR, starting to help more with build out, worried about covid safety, and space privacy. Mark- Bellingham washington makerspace, like to make clothing, and doing glasswork, learning FPGA programming. Relay- he / him- Playing on linux, likes useful scripts, helping install linux, enjoys youtube download, ffmpeg Jay- messing around with music, visual art, and working, learning Sequl and processing, and Hydra, Mentar- From UK, used to be member and trustee of the London Hackspace(partly based on noisebridge) likes ebike hacking, hydroponics, programming, AI and firmware Dan- interested in neurosciecne, machine learning, computer sciences, and other cool stuff James- owes J a birthday present, doing ffmpeg, used o live in bellingham Potato head- I wanted to check about how someone applies for membership during COVID closure ? Gwen- I am into tinyHome for housing on slack. Yantra- Carl- Software developer, lavalamp.app, does flashen taschen, just made plasmajs.com 20:38 devil Hi I'm one of the b33f'y Gaming VR computers on wheels in the hackitorium, available for video conferencing and general collaboration, useful for monitoring the driveway when behind the "curtain" 20:57 upstairs I'm the computer otherwise known as FAA, a small cube in the front upstairs overlooking the driveway 20:58 temple Another Game VR super COVID cruncking folding box, useable for making distancing ttrainin
Short announcements and events
60-second description per item in bulletpoint.
5mof coming up this week at 8 on our jitsi find out more at 5mof.net will be at jitsi.noisebridge.io/5mof
Our Secure Scuttlebutt Pub server is back online and open for invites. Enjoy a totally decentralized, e2e-encrypted, offline-first Social Network for introverts. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Pub
Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and thrive, yo.
- Funds in bank:
- Noisetor (See the bulletpoints at the bottom of http://noisetor.net/finances/#summary):
- Any other details by those participating in handling our financials
- The latest financial reports from the treasurer are available at https://discuss.noisebridge.info/c/finace/39
- Cash %-71.93%
- crypto %-28.07%
How's it all going
(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the Consensus Items History page.)
(Add any new items for consensus to the Current Consensus Items page.)
Capacity Cap on Capp https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items
|Date First Discussed XX Month, Year||Proposed By User||Informal Title||Summary||Author of this Record User|
|November 17, 2020||fnord||Capacity Cap at 272 Capp Under Construction and Further Restrictions in this Time of Contagion||
0) Respecting (recently updated) SF requirements relating to coronavirus pandemic, Noisebridge is temporarily closed for "business as usual". Whatever details, safe to say for the foreseeable future: no in-person "events" (classes, tours, parties, etc). And most activities related to the buildout should probably hold off for now - let's stick to Minimum Basic Operations to be on the safe side. Take a break folks!
1) Going forward, limit number of people indoors at 272 Capp to 3 downstairs and 3 upstairs - whenever knowledgeable volunteers can safely get back to work building out the new space. "Buddy System" to encourage effective social distancing, masks and like seriously - no more indoor dining ffs please enjoy your snacks and drinks outside thanks.
2) Knowledgeable Volunteers are encouraged to facilitate safe and productive use of the space. Knowledgeable Volunteers schedule work in advance and coordinate efforts as much as humanly possible. Knowledgeable Volunteers are best volunteers! Because they schedule in advance and don't mess around in the space too much! Knowledgeable Volunteers are welcome and will be supported in their relentless pursuit of excellence.
3) Prioritize some projects to safely open the the space for more participants, such as ventilation and making good use of the outdoor space. Allocate funds and encourage donations for these "phase zero" buildout expenses - for example might could budget $1000 for some of the fans and shop stuff (tbd, not going crazy with stuff here but should arrange to expedite any necessary purchases in the interest of Moving the Project Forward). Basic safety equipment such as fire extinguishers and exit lighting must be deployed as well, prior to any other significant work being done by volunteers in the physical space.
4) Autoexpiration: Unless re-affirmed at a later date, these extraordinary restrictions should be considered obsolete by (at the latest) March 14th 2021 - and open to reasonable modifications at any point as things change. Probably should refresh details and reconfirm relevance at least every month or so. And we can take it from there to increase capacity as conditions permit.
Anyway. This proposal for (formal) Consensus claims to reflect the current state of affairs and a rough consensus of volunteers working to build out the space. It's been going great so far and we'd like to keep it rocking - safely. Further suggestions, questions, support (and moar volunteers!) from the broader Noisebridge community would be most welcome at this point.
Dan- It should be self explanatory as to why we need this.
Dan- any questions
Mark- Question- our makerspace up here in is open to 20%
Dan- SF is doing ok, but our area of the mission is at much higher risk. We also figured out that it is safer to just close down our space, and allow for slow build out instead of going overboard.
(new restrictions were just added by the governor of CA as of yesterday... should check on this to confirm)
Curtains- keep in mind we finished moving during covid two weeks ago, and are just now starting to refocus on build out of the space, so we still have to setup a space to open, and manage current reality Only a couple people were able to help move at a time to our new space. Absolutely excellent people helped out. Many are burned out now. It is hard for our space to function in the way we wish it could.
not burned out yet, 9 years, 11 months and 20 something days to go, for 272 ;+) it's a marathon for us all if we are lucky, sprints welcomed with consensus building
Pyconaut- I agree with everything
Jay- What are state of classes
Dan- We are trying to do online classes. We are trying to start recording tool use guides for ou new tools in the space. But if we say we are teaching classes, we have to do a lot of paperwork to make the city OK us on taching classes. We should not be having even a single student class in thhe space.
Jay- What online classes are hapening weekly meeting accessabilty meetings Circuit hacking monday
Dan- Any concers, power tripping, private use of space, what should change
Pyconaut- Still wondering about teachers using the space for remote classes, and events that were going to be in the space. Things like sewing area for sewing class, VR computer for teaching, audio area for ableton.
curtains - I want to come back to that safety bit, in telepresence, and using the space to hang out by yourself
Pyconaut- I think a mistake I have been making is eating whiel running a few of the online events and have not gone outside to eat. I don't think it sets a good example. I will probably stop eating at noisebridge or find a way to monitor stuff from outside.
Dan- Eating outside can be goten used to.
Pyconaut- if we even want to have teachers come in, we need more protective gear, so they feel safe. And more ventalation.
Pyconaut- no other comments?
James- what about re-writing the time line to be "re-consense after three months" instead of in 2021.
Dan - Sounds good
Pyconaut- No Member blocks it?
Pyconaut- I don't hear any blocks. This goes to next week..
Dan- Talk to people and find out if anyone wants any changes.
Discussion Item 1
Basic space safety (with limited use)
- Buddy System (+Virtual)
- Mask, modified Respirators (moderate stock)
- Gloves (well stocked)
Pyconaut bringin more
- Sanitizer (NEED MORE)
Pyconaut bringin more
- Wipes (MORE)
Pyconaut bringin more
- Distancing (Demonstration distancing marks needed)
- No indoor eating/drinking (Eat before/after visiting, use driveway/car)
Pyconaut - I will do better
Discussion Item 2
- Safety & Privacy
- Recording, re-broadcasting, scraping
Pyconaut - it was brought to my attention over the last couple weeks people have heard we have a jitsi server for NB always running with cameras connected. And people are concerned why are cameras connected and is there a danger of cameras recording / monitoring people. Where are the cameras? How easy are they to turn off? Some context: we have been trying to setup telepresence in the space so people can take classes remotely - so we need telepresence setups in a couple classwrooms for when needed. We've set these up as testing instances. Monitor computer keyboard mouse and webcam are adequately labeled - easy to locate, none hidden - able to be turned off or on by any person in the space without much effort. Unclear if they can be turned on or off remotely. But the current use of them has mainly been during buildout to be a way of communicating between people seperated in different rooms - or to contact remote [advisors] for information about the space. For example when working on 3d printers or electronics room they can contact someone over jitsi to discuss what they need to do. This is important to communicate
Question: Does the space include visible documentation on the cameras? Is there a sign saying "Recording in Progress" or similar?
Pyconaut - yes but could be better. We could have bigger lighted signs indicating not only if jitsi is running on a computer, but also if camera or microphone is on. (Some systems run headless)
. Something like the ngalac has - a giant on-air button
Relay - are they constantly on?
You do see below..., could be, will be automated, dry erase and door glass for now.
Is it visibly clear which part of a room is being recorded via video? Example: step beyond this line and you are now live on the feed with chalk or crayon marks on the floor
Is it currently possible to opt out of being recorded in the space while in the space? No, enter and you are recorded. Just clarifying. ;)
Is the external camera still that ring camera+light combo that was previously installed during move-in?
Theres a GIANT RED STOP LIGHT that says RECORDING, for potential of actual recording, and simpler signage for in house only could be added.
they are generally left on, staring at walls or cams (when the space is empty) and can be turned off physically and remotely they've been on as much as possible to stress the system, not necessarily expected to be default mode long term
Where are the cameras located? (haven't been to capp to see; just write in below please).
Look at who's in this jitsi meetings, and the cameras that introduced themselves earlier. It changes constantlys depending on what if anything is happening, and who's comfortable with what level of activity.
J - are they always connected to the internet?
Pyconaut: Currently people who have been going to the space have been leaving them running. Possibly to help monitor gate etc. Any person in the space is able to turn off all of the telepresce setup
Dan- the setups are very obvious, and are connected to eachother (crazy echo). We know this can be very dagerous, but we are trying to be transparent, and trying to develop this so that it is safe, and will fix any issues.
James- Is it possible to opt out
James- is there any way to opt out while entering the space
THERE IS NO RECORDING IN THE SPACE BY DEFAULT. You have to go in to a closed room and step in front a live camera. Does not cover what others who have access to the space physical or virtual want to do as well.
Pyconaut- we do have a gate camera that is always running, and has not been put offline as we do not have a gate system up yet.
J- it is importaint to have a outdoor looking camera. But I dont think we should have any remotly accessable cameras that are online all the time, and could theoretiaccly be recorded by third parties.
You walk by several ring cameras on the way to capp st by the way if you aren't really really careful.
But, do we still also have the ring camera outside? Or a different camera?
we havern't identfied who's property is, it's pointed at the sky with tape over it and isn't actively connected. (thanks)
The driveway is also streaming, and has currently joined the jitsi (upstairs)
Relay- In the moment people could record very easily, includen what we are doing right now. this is public right now, as it is a meeting. But also while noisebridge is closed it seems like a good time to test these things, and that we will change them when we open.
J- how transparent is enough, and
How do you create instruction and classes without recording with a camera, for virtual out of space experience?
Mark is awesome right not making clothes on their home camera.
Pyconaut- I think there's been a lot of good questions. What? Oh. Yeah. Okay. There's a few comments ... Another thing there are cameras on quite a few buildings near noisebridge so we could make a map where the cameras are in the neighborhood for people coming to visit.
Could we put a button near the front door for people to turn off cameras when they come in
rasperry pi telepresense with a button that can sever everything when pressed.
put them in physical space. that way they can hit the button and turn off the jitsi instances other than i think the front gate secure, we should leave the one in the front open i dont' think it is being recorded. it is important to be able to make sure that nobody is trying to break in (it already happened)
Dan: im getting tired. Big picture words.
Dan- I completly agree with J and Relay, I am fed up with cameras especially what happened at thhe old space. We are currently doing this testing because noisebridge is closed, and is the only time we can test it. what matters is who is actually coming to the space's opinion.
Pyconaut: i think that we do have a group of people worried about not being able to enter the space securely. we should be able to accomodate those that want to come in not being recorded and let them in without being recorded. the person that lets them in can turn off the cameras. if people want to let us know when they are coming and they want no recording we'll turn them off.
Anyone present have an issue coming to the space with everything they've just heard?
I have been at the space for 100's of hours testing camera settings, and haven't had any issues that could not be reasonably accomidated.
It's been discussed in several meetings which has been re-discussed in other forums. This is also new and being documented as developed.
Question James- Is documentation of our Capp location cameras publicly posted on the wiki or forum or mailing list?
we should make a wiki page for the telepresense that has not been updated with this new stuff. we don't have the locations up to date. none of them have a password. all are ascessable from the inside. One of the machine's password is ***************. X probaly knows the status and software of these computers.
How easy is it to do stuff? we want to make sure no keyloggers are on the system and sniffers. SOme unexcellent people did that in the past. we should make our system more secure. Some poeple did that to the VR earlier and made things unexcellent.
Then you all seriously need to stop using Windows on everything
Wait are their hackers at hackerspaces!? iz late, get'n later, ya'll want a show or what?
Dan: the monitoring of surveilence might be something to be concerned.
James:: there is no docuemtnation for something I invented tomorrow?, and it's a wiki documenta way. \ Dan: it is a work in progress. Thank you for your point though. it is not permenant. If it was perminant it would absoluly need documentation.
(argument insues briefly)
It is an experiment that is controversial.
J- it should probably be documented already even as a temperary setup.
Dan: X did lots of documentation for the cameras. look at the wiki if you want to. Please try if you want to. it definately crossed some lines. thank you. Thank you for your patience
pyconaut: James wanted a direct answer that's all. It is very important to poeple here. People were going to publish a post that said that noisebridge is 1984'd distopia.
J from some people's perspective it is good to have security for those that want it now, but I don't agree with haveing a camera in the space. I understand it is for now, but it is a fine line and we are right on the line right now. Many fought against it. Poeple have been thrown out for putting cameras in the space. It seems to be a form of security, but i don't think it is good. It might be turned against us.
?? I love having tape to put on cameras where I go. thanks for coming out and huge shout out to mark working in the middle of a meeting. I want to underscore this is for getting there. A year ago we had meetings in person without masks.
This testing of the servers and telepresence infrastructure is only doable to during the time
We can remotly disable all of these,
we are trying to test stuff while it dosent invade anyones privacy. I have be a big security activist, and am trying to figure this out to so that it meets everyones security concerns.
J- it is a fine line, and I am concerened X- we recently used this setup to record a guide to use a new noisebridge tool that was donated.
Dan- Hearing the concerns by people like j who is concerned and wants to help set up the space. We need to make the current space meet their concerns and others and take them down.
J- I am more concerned about the larger community, and what this means for the people who are concerned.
X- The notes are a shorthand version of the exact things talked about during this meeting,
X- This server for the meeting has ETE encription and is running on a noisebrige computer in the space, and anyone who wants to know how it is working they can talk to X.
X- I plan to remotly hard shut down all the computers with cameras right after the meeting and they can only be turned on in the space.
Pyconaut- I think the gate camera should be left on for security?
X- We should also move off of windows and secure the drives with encription, for when we do record classes
Dan- I want to hear the concerns of others who would tell people to stop supporting noisebridge.
Pyconaut- I am sorry to any readers, as there were very useful things said that me and others could not write up in easily.
X- Noisebridge is still a do-ocracy and can be changed by the community.
J- I want to help out, what stuff need work.
X- we have not forgotten about security and privacy.
X- a new thing I am testing a is giant stop light in the rooms that have a camera that is running, and a two way mirror blocking the camera from viewing anything other then itself.
X- how can we make it easier for systems that teachers can just come in and use the systems. Or even remote into the systems to use for a class, or for someone remotly to control a computer in the space to help someone use that computer (home teacher, in person student)
X- We want to be able to meet everyones needs and everyones concerns, but this requires testing.
J- I want people to be able to easily come into the space, and be able to quickly start using the gear in the space.
J having a camera in the space changes the dynamic, I do not agree with the principles that we should have cameras in the space.
X- We have always had events in the space and many have been streamed, and people are made aware.
J- can we have a feed right at the enterance, can we make it even more transparent about what cameras are on.
Dan- How can we keep people from being unaware about the cameras.
J- People have also come to me with concerns about the cameras.
J- this will not be end of the conversation
X- This has been an experamental setup,,, and is constantly changing based on feedback.
Dan- This is where it starts, this is not the end all be all, we need to have this conversation continue.
Dan- We are still a community, and are havingissues seting up the new physical space, and the cameras have helped trememdously.
Question Is the Jitsi machine accessible from .info? jitsi.noisebridge.io (aka: Vbox on cia.noise) NO, it's not on Unicorn, it's in the physical space and physically accessable
Pyconaut- These notes do not answer all the quesions perfectly, and some things might be confusing. If you still have concerns please let someone you trust know, if you want you can message me on slack, discord, or discuss.
Didn't ask about Jitsi for discussion item; just asking.
Discussion Item 3
[Question] are all of our meetings to be on this Jitsi moving forward? Pyconaut- Yes it has been stable enough - We should add the ability for users to phone in via SIP - Also, we can use Mumble VOIP to greatly alleviate bandwidth concerns in Jitsi. It is already installed at mumble.noisebridge.info and allows users to silently listen / audio-only join en masse for the Jitsi calls. Supports vastly more people (hundreds), allows easy anonymous participation, push-to-talk, txt-to-speech, low latency and you can see live examples at mumble.jupiterbroadcasting.org which are used daily for podcasting with 50 - 100 people participating. Very similar to Discord in design.
- just needs to be setup to integrate into the Jitsi calls.