Meeting Notes 2021 04 13
These are the notes from the The XXXth Meeting of Noisebridge.
- Live notes
- Virtual Meeting (jitsi mic/cam off by default)
Date: 04-13-2021
Note-taker: Pyconaut
Moderators: FIXME THEIR NAME HERE.
- One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary.
Meeting Summary[edit | edit source]
FIXME FILL OUT AT END OF MEETING AND SEND TO MAILING LIST TLDR what happened at the meeting:
- Fundraising Update
- Announcements:
- Finances:
- New members:
- New philanthropists:
- Consensus Items:
- Discussion Items:
Introductions[edit | edit source]
Pyconaut- He / him - Hope to ski one more day this winter / spring, Tyler - He/Him - playing http://skifreeonline.com/
Short announcements and events[edit | edit source]
60-second description per item in bulletpoint.
Excellence[edit | edit source]
Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.
(What does that mean? How does the Anti-Harassment Policy fit into this? Are we SURE we know what being Excellent is? This is an important and fundamental conversation at Noisebridge, so let's give it like 120 seconds.)
Read the Wiki
Participation[edit | edit source]
Everyone at Noisebridge is a participant at Noisebridge.
(What does that mean? How do you get a door key? Access to Slack, Discuss, etc?)
Read the Wiki
Philanthropists[edit | edit source]
A Philanthropist at Noisebridge has earned enough trust from the community to open and close the space.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Philanthropists? How do you become one? etc)
Read the wiki
Membership Binder [edit | edit source]
Membership in Noisebridge entails community Trust in Consensus.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Members? How do you become a Member? etc)
Read the wiki
Financial Report[edit | edit source]
Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and thrive, yo.
- Funds in bank:
- Noisetor (See the bulletpoints at the bottom of http://noisetor.net/finances/#summary):
- Any other details by those participating in handling our financials
- The latest financial reports from the treasurer are available at https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Finances
Fundraising Update[edit | edit source]
How's it all going
Consensus[edit | edit source]
Consensus is how the Noisebridge Membership may change how Noisebridge works.
(How does Consensus work? What types of things are good for formal Consensus? What is small-c consensus? What is a "block"?)
concensus is the process by which things that can't be done through basic do-ocracy (things that affect others in the space.) It has two flavors, small c and big C. Small c concensus is the process where things that might cause slight issues in the space (events, big projects, moving rooms, etc), you just talk with the community before doing things. Big C concensus is the process by which action are taken at noisebridge that are to big, to expensive, or to critical to be done by small c concensus. These are things like Moving, spending a lot of money, or doing legal bureucratic garbage. This is a two week+ process where an item is propsed one week (if possible you should already have the item posted in draft concensus items, and the binder). At that meeting it will be discussed for a while, then the next week it will be discussed again, and if people feel confident, it will be brought up for concencus, and if no big M member blocks the consensus items it passes and becomes a Consensed item.
Proposals from last week [edit | edit source]
(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the Consensus Items History page.)
Proposals for next week [edit | edit source]
(Add any new items for consensus to the Current Consensus Items page.)
Opening Noisebridge
LXPK- What about having people using vaccine passports (CDC vaccine documents). Many countries are already doing this. Do people think this is viable
LXPK- So we could ammend the consensus item to add the following: For Noisebridge to comply with San Francisco pandemic guidelines, several steps need to be taken. We can monitor the number of people on the premises to stay below the City's capacity limitations and our internally determined current allowed number of people upstairs and downstairs according to space and ventilation allowances. Whomever opens Noisebridge should keep a log of hours opened and numbers of persons and times entering and exiting the space to document that we comply with city guidelines. Best practices for those keeping watch on the space will be established at meetings and be updated according to conditions. There may be additional steps necessary to maintain safety and compliance which will be re-evaluated according to health agency guidance.
Pyconaut- more then just following City and State guidelines, I think we need to have our own guidelines that refrence the current the state of the mission which has much higher case count then the rest of SF (if The mission was a city, it would be red or purple teir, not SF Oarnge). Dan- Mission is nbuts
Mark- We need to make sure to have good logs that show that we are following gudelines (hours open, people in space).
Dan- The documents we need to make for this so that we can fall into general city compliance is the next real step. Until those items are filled out, we will not be able to open. The longer we wait the less documents/compliance regulation we might need. Maybe move our moving date in the consensus item from when it passes, to june sometime.
Dan- Maybe prepare for partial opening, where we can close down for a few week when we have construction.
Pyconaut: Adding construction time where NB will be closed to work on it as part of the re-opening consensus item might be good. When I get vaccinated, if Mission calms down more, I'll go to NB more often and volunteer space-watch esp. if I can find a buddy to help keep watch. I think it would be good if space watchers are vaccinated. At some point, I don't know if it will be the fall or next winter, but we're going to be probably opening up to people who might not be vaccinated and if we're turning people away just because they're not vaccinated that could be seen as un-excellent. But for right now, for the safety of community, vaccination is something we should consider. Don't know if trust is right word for what I think about vaccines in our conmmunity.
We should not ban non vaccinated, but it is easier to consuder people who are, espicially if you need to work in a big group.
LXPK- This resolutions goal should be squarely aimed at people who are coming to noisebridge to help buildout, and to keep them safe. Not for general happy noisebridge hacking open time. Dan- How should we do this open (we are opening in june or july, or we are now open for buildout, or both, or buildout opening happens in june). We are trying to grow a community of responsibility, and adaptibility for this.
LXPK- Maybe we can adapt it so that fully vaccinated people who have keys can go in on top of thoseof three households. We also need a way for old keyholders (Big M members, philanthropists), to ask for keys if they are vaccinated.
Dan- Upstairs seems a lot harder to amnage then downstairs. 2 upstairs, 4 doownstairs, and maybe 3 outside (though mission).
New notes for today
Dan- Mission is still at 7.8 per 100k people, which
LXPK- We had a discussion last week on how we will open up and how. The immediat concern is the construction, and make sure that they feel safe. We need to account for that more then just opening up as the city gets safer. Vaccinations could allow for some extra people. 2 people keeping count.
Noob- We also talked about potentially having a watchdoog system to monitor the situation at noisebridge, and keep the space safe.
Noob- According to a source california is opening on june 15th. Anything we do might be void after june 15th. How do we handle that.
LXPK- should we accelerate constraction for that.
Noob- Maybe the construction can hapen at the same time.
LXPK - we did discuss having a staggered start with construction crew and general public
Noob - If we want to consense on that, we could. Just depends on what we collectively want.
Pyconaut - I did want to mention that I just found out in related-ish info that San Francisco opened its vaccine eligibility a couple days early to 16 and older so that could speed up getting people back in the space. I don't think we should open in the exact same way California is opening as I... California opening up also means opening up tourism and SF is a hotspot for international tourism that could make it very dangerous and could bring about extra spikes even if a majority of San Franciscans are vaccinated which I would be worried about as well.
TJ- 54% people have gotten at least 1 dose and it is not the 70 or 80% but there are promising vaccination rates.
Dan - Specificially Mission is above 50% so hopefully a month from now we'll see a different picture.
Pyconaut - Covid has no borders so you have to look at throughput of everyone going through city being part of stats of city. If travel opens up, it puts chance of us getting to 70 or 80% vaccine rate behind schedule since that means all people in the area not just all residents who live there. All people in that area at that moment count tords herd immunity.
Dan - Trying to put into words what people have shared with me about concerns about chicken and egg problem about getting more volunteers to build what we need to do. Noisebridge, having been closed, has been a bottleneck to getting a critical mass of people working to open it up again. I hear that and I think it is something we want to understand and figure out how to not let that be a problem as we figure out how to open up safely not just with regards to Covid 19 but taking into account that we're ramping up again. We don't have critical mass of volunteers to keep Noisebridge from going off the rails as it has been known to do without enough people around who know what is going on. That's where we're at. I'm optimistic and not worried but definitely want to address that possibility that we need people to do some work. Hearing what moderator was describing as being shifts for times when people just build the space staggered to time open for members reminds me of the discussion with @broccoli who is a Member [can I get in now] but I'm like "I don't know you." Community and web of trust and expectations that come up with access control... We should make that part of our agenda to have as part of a good reopening. Starting from very few people comfortable coming to the space knowing what they're doing. I'm not a Member. I'm just another hacker. I'm in a weird position of having spent a lot of time in the space when nobody else has and feel like that's okay for me but urging caution to open it up. I'm gotten as far as I can to have balance between inviting people in and vetting and vouching for people and not being too careless with keys right now. If someone asks me for key I say ask someone else. Enough said.
nthmost - I just wanted to point out that one of the fundamental purposes of membership is an established trust network and we put people through paces to become members and "dismember" if it was a mistake. Noisebridge has almost completely ripped itself apart over notion of who should be member and who should not because we hold it in high esteem. We should be able to say a thing like members should be trusted with access. It is useful to note that NB has relied on there being a core of people willing to inculturate others as needed. There are several people here new to NB that I think are highly trustworthy. I don't think we need to go as far as saying a members only time exists. If someone is created as a member, that consensus-based "we trust you with the ideas of NB" that should count for something.
pyconaut - I agree with both points a bit. Trust is one of those things that is critical with reopening period. Because of way covid and such works, it is hard to do a straight soft or hard reopening to let everyone and guests in. Because we don't have door access system we can't give access token people access to the space different from members and philanthropists. Also, giving out keys is one of those things that even at NB was harder to do because it is harder to undo. Undoing RFID access is simple by comparison than having to change the lock. Members and philanthropists should have access when we open but right now that doesn't need to be keys. That would require us to set up the access system immediately to safely allow people to enter space without giving them too much ability to make mistakes. We have had philanthropists and members come in and take stuff from space. We want to be careful. I don't know what the answer is. I think discussion is important and if we can maybe focus on vetting who we want to trust [with keys] and if we can focus on making the space safe for people with the access system we can let people in without the keys and have guests again. Every week or 2 I get 5+ messages asking if NB's tools are available. "Can I come do XYZ". Right now I tell them we're currently closed and none is set up for people. I know that's been harsh on some people who used NB to supplement their income through doing projects for people.
tj - We could have a todo list of tings to do before we open. In addition to opening date we need a to do list.
* RFID lock
* building out the rooms
* progress with the elevator
We won't be able to get everything done before we open.
LXPK - We know what we need to do and this list could help us check stuff off so that we can open up more and more.
TJ - how would you schedule them out?
LXPK - basically, we need to have the access controls setup and the equipment and construction at a point where its safe for people to start using it and come in. That would be enough for some amount of people to start using NB again and we need to do construction to get there. Expanding the number of people who could come in might be based on a metric of actual safety rather the arbitrary city open declaration.
nthmost - I'm going to propose that this problem is self-regulating, the number of people who will want to hang out in NB's current state will be low. Number of people who will want to are likely ones who want to build it out.
Mark - agree. They'll also want to regulate the number of people.
nthmost - unsure. but i'm not worried
pyconaut - I think opening up to the public could be dangerous. I know a lot of people who were trying to use NB for internet at beginning of pandemic and had no interest in helping build NB. Last fall I used NB once or twice to get better upload speeds to host events. Classes. People will try to come use NB very quickly. Not just people who want to help build us out. We have some equipment set up and some people are fine using equipment that's not set up. That could be an issue. We want to be cognizant about how many people we let in the space. If SF gets better by june 15 I think it will be an easier sell. I'm not worried about opening up too late, but I am worried about opening up too early and what risks that could put our community in.
Dan - About limiting number of people. We talked last week and I mentioned it is hard. I could welcome a dozen excellent hackers who I know are there to build space safely. I could see that. I could see 2 people being sloppy as way too much to deal with. It may be better to not look at numbers of people or classes of people (members/public) but to set expectations for standards of behavior and I think there is an expectation or a hope that we can guide it to a reality of... for the next couple months using the space for its intended purpose of building shelves and tables and setting up the basic setup. The grand buildout may go on for a year on and off and I can't claim that it is happening every day now so there's no room for anything else as it has been slow but a comment on the futility of hard limits on numbers of people. It will be lower than max most of the time but I wouldn't want to put a cap.
julian - I'm a board member of biocurious and we've been open through this. The way we ran it is, we had a limit of members only. Anyone who wants a tour can come in. Board members say put on a mask. We have good compliance but we already wear PPE in lab so this is just adding a piece of PPE. We have no incidents so far and decent space for about 15 people so we use half California's recommended limit. We have members who run businesses so we accomodate that and its worked out. BioC's square footage... We have 10 rooms.
pyconaut - You guys also have labs with proper ventilation and are laid out in such a way to keep space pretty clean and ventilated which is something NB has struggled with. Also, I don't know how often you hosted random classes with a random number of people. Did you use meetup and eventbrite and knew how many people would show up?
julian - we're not hosting classes atm but we have active online presence. Member only atm. We have sign in for members on ipad with app someone made.
LXPK - That's one of the things we want to start doing immediately. Small c things we can start doing.
Dan - We have a clipboard by the door with several pages of brief notes of who and what date and purpose for the last 6 months or so. It took a little getting used to.
LXPK - so we have that in place and we can make sure to use it dilligently.
Dan - It will take some nudging but it becomes mostly automatic. It will take some inculturation.
pyconaut - I'm thinking about a checklist of things we need to do to re-open and general order of stuff. Some of these can be worked on in tandom. Something we need to do:
* Door access system - a month ago Henner and a couple people wanted to get it done. So we don't have the key problem. * Contact landlord about elevator. * Get elevator location clarified by ADA specialist and contractor. Until we know where it goes and any ramp, we can't figure out layout for anything. We can't do rooms woodshop laser or electrical running. It requires elevator position plan. We can do everything once we decide that. The sooner we get that done the better. It will take 6 months to install but knowing helps. * PPE plan - We will want for forseeable to have a plan and have stuff on hand for gloves, washing hands, sani, kept in stock. We have stuff. I brought 500 gloves, 2 gallons of 99% isopropyl alcohol to dilute into 70%, 5 containers of alcohol wipes, touchless thermometer, and some other stuff. I brought in a lot in bulk. We need masks still. n95s.
Dan - People who know what's going on. There's not a lot of people coming. There's a lot who could but so far its been not a lot. That translates to if we're expecting someone to be there if someone comes to greet arrivals it may not be possible. That's the reality atm. Its quiet. Not going to change without more people getting involved. Let's plan to increase that over coming months and manage expectations. I don't see a plan.
Mark - If we did get in contact with these people about the RFID stuff and see where they're at to get project going it would be good first step project to get more people involved who could. Then we could come without keys.
LXPK - so door would faciilitate more people coming and helping.
Mark - It would help get more people.
TJ - We also need ventilation for the laser cutter. That could also be a todo item.
Pyconaut - The problem is that if we don't get self-contained ventilation system and need to pipe outside, that hinges on where we put laser cutter one of largest machines in space. Right now one option is close to where elevator could go. So we can't cut holes for laser vent till we know where laser goes. We don't want to pipe fumes too far. Remember difference when we moved laser to the back made massive difference. We no longer had 25-30' hazardous pipe.
LXPK - we can put the dependencies into the list for what unblocks what. What do we need to get landlord to be okay.
Pyconaut - we discussed an hour already. ADA specialist says we should just get llord okay with installing elevator before we try to talk with them or any potential installer. LL has to be onboard at first step. I talked to someone about helping us with process. They want a tour of space soon. They cost money, not much, but want us to have approval.
* Door access system - a month ago Henner and a couple people wanted to get it done. So we don't have the key problem. * Get elevator location clarified by ADA specialist and contractor. Until we know where it goes and any ramp, we can't figure out layout for anything. We can't do rooms woodshop laser or electrical running. It requires elevator position plan. We can do everything once we decide that. The sooner we get that done the better. It will take 6 months to install but knowing helps. * PPE plan - We will want for forseeable to have a plan and have stuff on hand for gloves, washing hands, sani, kept in stock. We have stuff. I brought 500 gloves, 2 gallons of 99% isopropyl alcohol to dilute into 70%, 5 containers of alcohol wipes, touchless thermometer, and some other stuff. I brought in a lot in bulk. We need masks still. n95s.
LXPK - Who will bottom line getting these accomplished?
- Talk to landlord for approval. (Cory Pyconaut and Tyler)
- ADA Specialist inspection -
- Talk to installers for elevator location decision.
- Checking in with Henner about Door Access - nthmost and Mark and TJ
Pyconaut - Cory said he'd draft email. Ill ask Tyler if he asked landlord about this. We'll write up short paragraph or 2 email saying we need to install elevator.
LXPK - Do we still want to discuss the drafting of a consensus item about NB's todo list to be able to open? A todo list is kind of a consensus item for big C.
Mark - probably unnecessary right now. More like let's continue discussing what the item might be when we get the list done.
TJ - we might want to do consensus items about opening once we need more people in the space for various projects.
Dan - If we're goign to recognize what we agree on, am I correct to say that we here tonight would like to see NB able to accomodate a few people to do stuff like electronics or sewing or using tools but we feel need to make some effort to make that possible. That effort is to get enough people to volunteer to show up and open door and show people what to do and where to go? Is that next month or june? I would hope we think its possible to accomodate a few people and it would be important to get some people in to do work to set up areas we're not just using for ourselves. That could be some kind of consensus on our agreed understanding. It would be helpful to let people know NB will be opening "when its ready"?
pyconaut - I agree. NB will open when its ready and stuff will change before any big C consensus about fully opening. I'm hopeful first people to come back are excellent volunteers and not just people who want access to tools. It does seem like building access system will get people we believe are excellent confident in coming back. We might want to put something about hosting in-person events aren't happening till certain period so people who want to do that aren't immediately trying to use the space. Some caveats about our state of being open and stages so people know when they can come back. That could instill a bit of confidence. "Oh yeah I can start going back in 2 weeks instead of 2 months of not knowing if you can go back to work on project."
LXPK - I would shy away from putting week or date numbers on the phases since that can be fluid and goes against the "when its ready" reality, but the general phases that will happen can be described in a way that is a ballpark. For example, I would not block a draft tonight for improvement and passing over the coming weeks that said "NB is under construction and open only to volunteers to work on setting up the space for now and we welcome anyone interested in helping to sign up for projects and we'll be getting the access system working to open the door to key cards soon."
TJ - I believe our phase 1 which is all the things that aren't blocked, namely RFID and drafting of elevator plans, don't require access to the space. I would say namely start talking about we need people to help build once we are ready and have floorplan and way to regulate people coming in.
LXPK - That's what I agree with too. We want people to be signing up / mentally preparing time to volunteer in the coming weeks and that's the message we ant to send while we get the door and the elevator blocking issues out of the way.
LXPK - what is the best way to get crews ready to volunteer after the door is dealt with?
nthmost - What people require is a degree of certainty. People need to know that when you say show up at X time for Y work that it will happen. You have to have the ducks in a row. There's lots of people we can reach via channels. You can't gaurantee how many people we get, but generally if we say we need some form of grunt labor for example to build library shelves against the upstairs hallway if we don't need a lift there. It needs 1 person overseeing carpentry, several book movers, couple power tool users. Can you line things up so people just need to be there for 2-3 hours, with breaks, water, safety, etc? Delivering on correct expectations.
LXPK - Is there anything we can do before door and landlord issue are done?
nthmost - Probably we just need to get the door done now as first step. Pinged henner on slack. Henner and Nicole showed up at NB few weeks back looking for RFID equipment. We'll see if they made progress.
Pyconaut - I'll check where the stuff is.
Dan - X located the pieces and put in box for them and showed them. Not picked up yet though.
LXPK - Could we deliver it to them? It's a big blocker.
Pyconaut - I'm fine driving NB objects around the bay.
LXPK - Could you ask them?
LXPK - we're really talking about drafting the announcement asking for volunteers for when the door is working.
Pyconaut - I could bring you to see first floor for some of our ADA options so far from a chair users perspective.
Dan - Does NB want elevator if LL says go for it but it costs $200K? Would we say yeah it's worth it? Otherwise we could use a chairlift/ramp? Elevator takes money and saves floor space from ramp. Tradeoffs to consider. Lizzard on slack said janky chairlifts break down in her experience. Up until I read that from Liz, I thought elevator wasn't going to happen and charilift was likely but it makes sense. Anyone else want elevator to happen?
LXPK - I think elevators are preferrable and we can move things up and downstairs easier with one than a chairlift.
Dan - anyone like idea of raising funds for elevator?
Pyconaut - If we have money and it won't cost too much elevator is better. We could get some grants. We have applied for grants before. We have more concise proposal and know where the moeny would go.
LXPK - Can we discuss this next week?
Nthmost - I can look into grants! Writing email right now. Found good leads. Worth reaching out.
Pyconaut - Finances haven't changed since last week to much though bitcoin went up a bit.
Carl - In my city they're considering grants this month since end of financial year is june so next time around would be in a year.
Pyconaut - fall grant season to prep tax writeoffs and summer one for financial year in june. Good time to reach out. I'll see if I can find leads. Fundraising group is mostly on Discuss or Discord. Preferences?
Nthmost - Discord is more immediate and open. Fundraising can be sensitive and we don't want that google indexed.
LXPK - Discord / slack better than Discuss for this then.
Pyconaut - great.
nthmost - I made fundraising@noisebridge.net mailbox and we can share the password because whatever. We can use webmail.
LXPK - Meeting sounds done!
Stack
Discussion[edit | edit source]
Discussion Item 1[edit | edit source]
ADA elevator stuff
Pyconaut- We now have an ADA and disability expert who is going to be able to help us make sure we do the elevator install and any ADA renovations correctly. We should probably mention them in any contact with the landlord, so that the landlord fells confident that we are doing this in the best way possible.
Dan- We want to start high and ask for an elevator and fall back on the wheelchair lift
Pyconaut- We should try to get some designs done for the tour.
Decepticons- Is able to help give tour to ADA expert.
Pyconaut- Did humanmande need to do anything special for ADA
Deceptiquons- We can ask Sarayah about that.
JDDurst- a few weeks ago we brought a elevator instaler into the space and they gave a few ideas about locations. at 15 foot 6 inches we are above what wheelchair lifts can go, so we would need a limited use elevator, or we would need a ramp and a landing area. To have an elevator we need to have a walled off area with 1 hour fire rating. Diamond elevators gave us a elevator contractor who installs their elevators, and that contractor has an architect. Put the elevator behind front stairs and have equitpment room be under the stairs.
Decepticons- We want to hear form more vendors first but this does give us a start, and we need to look at as many solutions as possible as we we need to set up for traffic. We do not want to to have bike parking right next to the elevator like in the old space. We need to first talk to the landlord about what options they will allow, and what an ADA exspert might say about options. We have a lot of resources and can find a solution for the people we are tryyinging to serve, the landlord, and the community at large.
Checklist
Talk to landlord
Get ideas drawn up
Get ADA expert to tour the space and give us input
Start to look at installers and contractors
Get this done
Decepticons- we could start doing better messurments while giving the tour to barry. And start doing things about ventalation.
JDdurst- I am happy to get some drawings in autocad and any extra measurments would be greatly appreciated. And we could start looking at elevator options.
Carl- Don't get a propriatry elevator that no one can service.
Pyconaut- That reminded me of an option I was thiinking about is some states and cities have custom elevator comainies that can install wheelchair lifts over 14 ft, but the problem is mantince of such an elevator.
Decepticons- elevators usually need a cut out below them that adds a lot of cost
Pyconaut - I have a list of union elevator contractors in nor cal, lemme pull that up... http://www.iuec8.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_page.cfm&page=Contractors
TJ- How should we go about the landlord. Have a lot of rough drafts? or a few well detailed items?
Decepticons- we could probably draft a single detailed solution that we can present to the landlord.
TJ- worst case scenario for doing it immediately seems better than waiting to draft a full plan.
Noob- What about a bit of both.
Carl- we could go before we have plans and just get in the waters.
Decepticons- I can start working on a draft to give the landlord, but we need to get it to the landlord.
Caarl- Bring it up early, they might be blindsided if we just start giving plans.
Noob- They might think we are trying to do this behind their back.
Decepticons - Not necessarily "behind their back", but it would definitely be good to start the conversation sooner rather than later.
Noob- who has current contact with the landlord
Pyconaut- I think tyler and X
People mention who they think can contact the landlord. Multiple people think X since they are in the bay.
Dan- X already has a lot on noisebridge plate. Might be good to reachout to both, abd fighre out if either has time. We can come up with the language and just have them say it.
Discussion Item 2[edit | edit source]
Startup closed biocurious is helping distruibute gear Hayward Sudo room Hacker dojo Noisebridge
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