Meeting Notes 2021 10 19
These are the notes from the The 650th Meeting of Noisebridge.
- Live notes
- Virtual Meeting (jitsi mic/cam off by default)
Date: 2021_10_19
Note-taker: Lizzard
Moderators: WozDave
- One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary.
Meeting Summary[edit | edit source]
FIXME FILL OUT AT END OF MEETING AND SEND TO MAILING LIST TLDR what happened at the meeting:
- Fundraising Update
- Announcements:
- Finances:
- New members:
- New philanthropists: Carly, Corrie, mcint, Lovi, Ryan,
- Consensus Items:
- Discussion Items:
Introductions[edit | edit source]
- WozDave - he/him - electronics and code!
- Weezy - they she he him all fluids musician engineer retired politician!
- Carl - that's all you need to know
- danny - i hack the future
- lizzard - they - i guess i'm the TRASHMASTER today
- Carly - a/v installations and sculpt and i like to make furniture
- Ryan - robotics and stuff - mechanical eng stuff and getting into software!
- TJ - I'm talking through a non functional mike (NFM)
- Aaron - online on jitsi
- Andrew - here for the first time!!!!
- LXPK - Gamebridge gamedev / vr teacher HIIIIIII
- Ronald
- Corrie
- Sophia
- Lovi - has a broken rib or something ow laser cutter artist! wants to help into hacking, privacy, linux, coding, murals and femming up our walls
- mcint
Short announcements and events[edit | edit source]
60-second description per item in bulletpoint.
- Weezy - Relocated the lounge area to be next to the window and sunlight
- Carly - music room getting worked on and looks nice
- Wozdave - we have a new thing we're going to try in the meeting and it's going to be a surprise!
- weezy is heading out of the bay area for a while and this is their last meeting!
Excellence[edit | edit source]
Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.
(What does that mean? How does the Anti-Harassment Policy fit into this? Are we SURE we know what being Excellent is? This is an important and fundamental conversation at Noisebridge, so let's give it like 120 seconds.)
- Weezy - Excellence is a wonderful thing, it's our only rule here and it's an ever evolving concept, our rule isn't to be perfect, try your best to evaluate in any given situation what is the best for you the community and the space, respect for all! Be mindful of those who are around you and the spce you are usiing at noisebridge because it is finite!
- Ronald - Weezy did the upstairs pretty good, check it out!
- WozDave - Tyron is working on the music room! Ryan pulled an all day thing working on the gate (With Woz) Liz for working on the wiki
Participation[edit | edit source]
Everyone at Noisebridge is a participant at Noisebridge.
(What does that mean? How do you get a door key? Access to Slack, Discuss, etc?)
- ronald - check the doorbell when you hear it! If you have to do something that's one of the things, maybe!
- you should never feel obligated to let someone into the space though it is excellent to answer the door
- Ways you can participate: online stuff, slack, discord, discuss.noisebridge.info.
- Teach a class! a great way to participate
Do-ocratic Task Board[edit | edit source]
Participation also means doing stuff to contribute to the space. Pick some tasks from github, from what needs to be done around you, or whatever, and see if someone will sign up to work on that task. Anyone can sign up and it's a great way to show you are contributing!
- Set up and test the laser cutter!!! Corrie is interested in helping and also Lovi.
- * What about exhaust? It's at the front of the space rn so rollup door is the ventilation
- * https://discuss.noisebridge.info/t/laser-cutter-buildout/2725
- ??????? Is there anyone to teach laser training?
We've always asked everyone using the laser to receive training and be added to the laser section of our wiki so they are clear on how to run it + understand what are approved materials. ???[feel free to edit this and add correct info]???
- Emergency lighting! Loren will do this! We have emergency lighting as stands but it went out when we lost power. we have 2 new exit signs in boxes, we also have existing lights that need you to go up on a ladder and replace batteries.
- clear out the upstairs hallways - Sophia will work on that! Ronald may help. also carly will help YAY
- Where should our electrical outlets be! TJ will coordinate . switches too! Maybe also Loren?
- Big green industrial snap setter thingies! We have tried craigslist and nextdoor. We could try going to the company and asking if they want them (in south san francisco) We could gut the motors out for the bandsaw, and then ask our neighbors if they wanna scrap metal the rest. Who's feelin' snappy?! (No one quite volunteers yet)
Example tasks:
- Collect all the trash in the space into the large bins next Sunday night!
- Document how one of the 3D printers works on the wiki, print out QR code linking to it & tape it to that printer!
- Find us a plumber to replace the toilet and hang out with them in the space while they fix it (Perhaps organizing an entire toilet replacement workshop!) - I know someone who could do this for $60/hr (unless his rate has gone up). His name is Derek Gust, 415-307-0749. If you want to conatct him, I can give him a heads up.
Philanthropists[edit | edit source]
A Philanthropist at Noisebridge has earned enough trust from the community to open and close the space.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Philanthropists? How do you become one? etc)
carly tells us what it means to be a ph a philanthropist is excellent, they promote doocracy, they clean up the space, they maintain it, in a monetary way or by brining supplies. they take responsibility for the space.
dave: big things are being around to help facilitate the space being open and to close down the space.
carly: i'd love to do that.
liz: and here you are in the philanthropy binder, sponsored by TJ.
carly: it was kind of confirmed before but i was travelling and now i can actually be a philanthropist.
Carly is a philanthropist (already! but if not, definitly now)
{a number of things happen. loren and carly end up applying}
we are questioning corrie now.
lovie: what do you do? corie: dedicated to doing whatever needs to be done, paying dues, etc. e.g. helping with the laser cutter. liz: do you feel conffident in coming in the space. do you feel confident kicking people out? corie: yes. if im kicking out someone violent i feel like i might need backup. but i have experience dealing with conflict.
sponsor: liz.
dave: get your contribution squared away with the treasurer. once that happens i'll get your RFID.
mcint is now going. sophia is his sponsore. dave: let's haze mcint. weezy: how many bottles are in the flaschen-taschen {general laughter} mcint: {starts to calculate} {continued laughter and jokes} sophia: what does excellence mean to you and how do you intend to contribute to the space. mcint: {says stuff}.want to build some home air filters. do this a group at a time. also i want to come teach a class. that's how i want to contribute to the sapce dave: what do you want to do as a philanthropist mcint: philanthropist needs to be a steward of the space. opening, closing, offering tours. sophia: what do you think noisebridge should be? what do you want it to be mcint: i think it sohuld be a space where people can find/build community/tools and build whatever their heart desires. dave: as long as their heart desires something excellent {laughter} ronald: is your answer to this question no? {laughter} dave: got him stuck in a logical fallacy! {laughter} dave: does anybody block {silence} dave: get your stuff sorted out with the treasurer. sophia: and i'll show corrie the space.
dave: anything else lovi: i'm interested in becoming a philanthropist dave: do you have a member to sponsor you {silence, looks like no} dave: we can wait a couple weeks then. lovi: interested in laser cutter, gathering momentum for this, doing a lot of research about it. researching how to do the venting. dave: awesome, lots of new additions. im feeling the commmunity.
{random talking}
TJ: i'll sponsor lovi lovi: i don't have a pen, i'm reading the wiki as we speak. dave: does anyone block lovi. does anyone have questions for lovi {seems like no} lovi: i've been here almost every day for about ten days ronald: what kind of things would you want to laser cut for the space? lovi: makes a lot of sacred geometry art and would like to do some for the space. Also some stuff in the sewing room. Wants paint on the white walls and attachment points to hang things. Into generative art and coding and stuff dave: does anybody block? OK, welcome!
Sophia: lets talk about membership! (proceeds to explain membership, Membership, philanthropy, concensus) Dave: reiterates liz: explains big C and small c concensus
tj wants to sponsor ryan. Ryan is a philanthropist! who sponsored dennis (Dennis was told to reapply next week)
Dave: maybe someone should shadow Tyler who has interest in working with/as a treasurer locally. Dennis expressed interest in getting more involved
Membership Binder [edit | edit source]
Membership in Noisebridge entails community Trust in Consensus.
(What does that mean? What do we expect from Members? How do you become a Member? etc)
Financial Report[edit | edit source]
Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and thrive, yo.
- Funds in bank:
- Noisetor (See the bulletpoints at the bottom of http://noisetor.net/finances/#summary):
- Any other details by those participating in handling our financials
- The latest financial reports from the treasurer are available at https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Finances
Fundraising Update[edit | edit source]
How's it all going
carly asks if we should do fundraising events.
on first thursdays there are san francisco art walks. we could also do our own thing. it could be donation-based and bring more attention to the space. we could do a wave day with different wavelengths. some kind of science thing.
Consensus[edit | edit source]
Consensus is how the Noisebridge Membership may change how Noisebridge works.
(How does Consensus work? What types of things are good for formal Consensus? What is small-c consensus? What is a "block"?)
we talked about this as part of membership
Proposals from last week [edit | edit source]
(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the Consensus Items History page.)
do we have any consensus items? let's check the wiki... liz: oh jeez, there are a lot of notes here.
Proposals for next week [edit | edit source]
(Add any new items for consensus to the Current Consensus Items page.)
Proposal :
weezy: block X from the sapce. week 1
tj: i block it for this week we should bring it up again next week.
Discussion[edit | edit source]
dave: do we have any discussion items?
Discussion Item 1: cowboys[edit | edit source]
Woz: a couple weeks ago we were proposing a masks discussion item.my objection was that it was largely symbolic. it may seem contradictary i'm proposing sometihng of the same sort, but bear with me. i would like to consider adopting a non-official mission statement of some sort. i want to propose that the things we do here in the space are supposed to be inclusive. anything that's in the public areas of the space that's permanent or a permanent fixture should be operated in an inclusive way. lower case i inclusive, not trying to make a diversity statement. "this is my thing, not allowed to touch it" is bad
lizzard: do you mean , opposite of putting something up in the space and saying don't touch it.
lizzard: our current mission statement kind of implies that. a space for everyone to learn, teach, play, invent, explore. the "everyone" is right there.
carly: i got wood to work on a project. do i have to share it or can it be for everybody? dave: the way i think about it, if you had a ton of wood here for weeks straight, then whatever you were doing with that wood would have to be at the will of the space. tj: i'd also like to mention there are project shelves on that far corner. anything that's a personal project is perfectly fine to do. carly: i'd love to collaborate with people on the project. dave: it's fine for people to work on personal projects and stuff like that as long as it doesn't take a ton of space. if it's sucking lots of
sophia: james says "I am confused on what is being proposed. Please restate Dave as clearly as possible. Thanks! " dave: james. in concise a way as possible, big projects should be operated in an inclusive way.
dave: lemme give an example. i don't think people should be allowed to put a lock on the print shop and not tell people why. there needs to be community buy-in to whatever you're doing.
person: this is sort of covered by existing small-c consensus at all times.
dave: interdasting you mention this,,, because i'm lookng at a number of massive things that have been there for a while.
James: ah, in that case the person who put the lock on is responsible. If I put the lock on, I am the one responsible when it inconveniences others because I did not ask or tell others.
danny: you don't have to be indirect about these things. it's obvious you're talking about x. James: ^ great point. Be direct.
dave: sure we can be direct about it. but the question is what makes him think this is acceptable in the first place. {liz and wheezy}: that's not it. danny: if we had a rule, the rule would be used to do things. the number of times people have justified doing stupid things and then said "it's excellent". it sounds like this is because we don't have a good rules. but the truth is every time we've tried to have rules, the rule becomes the thing that people game. the reason we're discussing this is to try to prevent a thing.
dave: james, my proposal is that we adopt a mission statement that basically says we operate things in an open way, inclusive to the community.
tj: we haven't discussed it. James: I am confused on what is being proposed. Please restate Dave as clearly as possible. Thanks! -James who is saying this ^ ? i'll say this 4 u (thanks) uwu >^. .^<
Projects should be reversible and negotiable
Discussion Item 2 wheezy's item[edit | edit source]
James: Wait, what happened with surveillance? I can find no notes of this and would love to clarify what happened. Lizzard to James: X putting his cameras up around the space
weezy: so here's what's happening. we're in a hackerspace but we're not treating it that way. a few days ago there was monitoring and i reported it. there was a camera and a microphone. a friend of mine had to get their face on a live feed that wasn't announced to them. this accidentally knocked out the jitsi server. then woz put it back on. the jitsi was livestreaming into someone's house. i don't live being surveiled. surveliance is tyranny, nonconsensual doubly so. i wanna talk about hierarchical structures that make this happen that's not just X. friday night code camp. x comes through and let's everyone know he's a big m member. he's the largest m in the observable universe. this is the hierarchy that things like big m members create in the space. we have too much bureaucracy right now. when i tour people in the space i tell them our bureaucracy is doocracy and our rule is to be excellent. all of you sitting in front of me right now is a member. everyone's voice is equal to everyone else's space. i don't care if you've donated 150000 bitcoins. this is something i respect about x. there was a power opportunity for x. if i could have had the space for just me and my homie, i might have taken it too. we need to set up our structure to not have . i hate when people say that the answer is more rules. more rules is not the solution woz!
Sophia : i'm not nearly as fiery but yea. the reason why we have members is basically elect a board and have big c consensus items. we could just have everyone do those things. or just philanthropists
James: Doocractic actions are the responsibility of that person. So, X literally knows putting up cameras is not okay as of this month. Recording people without their permission is already a no-no. In addition, the prevous consenus to have cameras had an expiration. It was also doocractically removed with zero push back from anyone. So, bring those cameras back makes zero sense without asking permission, since that permission had already been collectively withdrawn by consensus of doocractic action after much discussion.
during the first 6 months of the pandemic we had 2 noisebridges we had physical noisebridge and slack noisebridge. not every takes the power of big M member and misuses it and takes up space and acts like thy are in charge but maybe it's a bad idea
loren: what do you want the discussion item to be? do you propose a change to membership structure?
weezy: i'd like to propose 86'ing X
sophia: we're planning to do that.if he doesn't answer and we make sure he is aware he needs to remove his stuff and not put up cameras
tj: i'd prefer to give him the option to not get 86'd.
weezy: we use 86 because we don't like to ban people and just say that people are unfit for the space. it's that he is on a power trip and yells at people
corie: are you proposing abolishing membership. that's what it sounds like.
weezy: no? maybe? i'm proposing to have only one member of hierarchy. if you can have the key, you can do blocking etc. do-ocratically do everything.
corie: do you have any solid evidence that this it tj: the last great exodus in 2017 involved membership as well. weezy: not saying guillotine either.
mod: is there a stack? can you please moderate
sophia: i want to say that noisebridge's governance mechanisms don't really scale.
We cannot hear you!!!! <- yes sophia - there are 14 members, philantropists at the space right now. if we make it so that people can block any item I think it would be harder to pass any item.
James: Can I direct respond? The item of doocracy is james: just to be clear. when someone does something at NB, it's do-ocractic. we've failed to clarify that every time you do something it's a do-ocractic action. when you do something you're responsible for what you just did. x knew not to put up cameras. in the past dan and x put up cameras with consensus which expired, so other then doocractically removed those cameras out of not wanting them anymore as time went on. we don't have to invoke membership to think about when people take an action . every time you do something, you're responsbile for it. you answer for your actions. So, that means it is X's responsibility to follow up, take the new cameras down, and answer the questions and concerns of others. Ignoring it is not an option because he is the responsible person.
dave: if we want to have a wider discussion about power and abuse, i'm totally down with that. but it's not going to be as simple as getting rid of members. if we didn't have this big C mechanism, we wouldn't have a space. we would have gotten evicted and noisebridge would be a bunch of cardboard boxes in an alley somewhere.
on strike (danny): i've temporarily come out of strike to give my opinion. 86 isn't throwing people out. one of the other reasons we call it that is because of the 8086 series of microprocessors and that's bad. the other thing though is that leadership is a pathology at noisebridge. one of the things that happens when you define leadership as a pathology is that people who are pathological look like leaders. often the pattern at nb is that everyone works well together and then someone with mental issues comes along and assume that they're in charge. when people want attention so they can use social pressure to get something done, they'll reach for whatever social presence or power. the important thing to understand about noisebridge. capital m members have no power, they're engineered to have no power. if people come in and say "i'm a capital m member" then they're not being excellent. if they still do this they should be hung up on their toes. if they say they're better for being a capital m member. liz: it's like if someone is on the board and they say that puts them in charge. absolute bullshit! danny: if someone does this they're basically like emperor norton. the number of times i've had to go up to people after a particular bossy person who acts like they are in charge gives them a tour and explain he isn't in charge....
it's important to see that that is the problem, not a deeper structural issue. it's a person who has troubles, not that they're the kind of nb.
Liz: it isnt that a person has particular mental illness problems it's about behavior. dave: if you're thinking members need to be abolished for not having power, that's already happened.
ryan: is there a way to revoke membership? sophia: has a member ever been 86'd liz: jake applebaum
mark on the internet: what i was going to say is that this specific person *haS* been invited to make their case. but they are not in the bravespace group, so i don't know if they've been reached out to. they definitely haven't responded to the thread in question. i wanna hear from them. if they don't respond perhaps they've elected to take some time out on their own? maybe people are seeing them around physically? dave direct respond: i wanna DR liz direct respond: We have tried!!! so many times!!! in person! he eludes it!! We've done it in a meeting with him here!
dave (DR): i have super god discuss powers that i do not exercise very often, except in times of dire urgency. i checked our sent emails, and he has one for that thread. by mention alone he has it. mark: so they have received communication for sure, but they are choosing not to respond. dave: or it's in spam, etc, don't want to make excuses for him. mark: wanna make sure they're part of this discussion as welll. dave: he's been emailed by discuss, gotten signal messages, pinged on slack, people here who have mentioned him. mark: gonna reiterate. let's keep it really general. big m members are not special and not above anyone else. there is no real hierarchy.
James: X also has god discuss powers. And is on bravespace Slack and might have admin there as well. And has admin on this Jitsi.
tj: also kind a DR. they have not been going during times when people are around. so it has been very difficult. hope it's been received. benefit of the doubt, it's to avoid consequences (?). do agree there needs to be some confirmation {he's received it?}. people who have a lot of confidence or ego can come into the space and act like they own it. if you start doing a bunch of things without telling people that show you weren't just doing things on a whim, it can turn on itself very quickly. as for the membership. i became a member mostly to bring other people to philanthropy and membership. honestly, if a phil wants to do that, then yeah. most of the members are here and then randomly show up, and then are like "i'm blocking this". i don't think abolishing membership will result in more bans/blocks (I might've messed this bit up). I'd be willing to try abolishing membership. I'd like some confirmation before going through with 86ing the member.
Sophia: what about instead of members or philanthropists we have people who've mostly been present for the last two months? that'd prevent random people from coming out of the woodwork.
liz: im too tired to invent a new governance structure for nb. maybe we should write a proposal. open to abolishing membership.
alex: hello. i understand sometimes when people are frustrated with something not going well, there's a temptation to blame the system as the source of the problem. the case made today is that we're having a problem today therefore membership is bad. nb has gotten through many generations of problems successfully. it's never been actually the case that membership was the problem. it was the mechanism that allowed for a gradual discussion to take place. or people realized a proposal wasn't as good as it may be. what you do't necessarily want is you don't want a group of people who temporarily are in the space the most to be able to accidentally destroy a bunch of stuff and sometimes it happens that toxic personalities com in the space and dominate people and push noisebridge in a weird direction and we got past that because people discussed that. a block means we need to discuss this more alex: all membership is, is, before we give someone the power to torpedo everything we've built, we want to get to know them. At least get to know people. lizzard: that is very persuasive to me
TJ: how big of a difference does it make, i would agree, membership alone was not the thing true cause was a power vaccuum when covid hit. a protective mentality made sense at the time but then it got flawed.
weezy: there's been surveilance in the space
stack: TJ
End of Meeting[edit | edit source]
Note taker posts the notes[edit | edit source]
- Clean and tidy the meeting notes including removing all these really verbose instructions.
- Fill out the short summary at the top listing just announcements, consensus items, discussion topics, and names of new members and philanthropists.
- Copy paste the notes to the next meeting page. (They will become Last meeting at midnight.)
- Email the meeting summary to Noisebridge Discuss and Noisebridge Announce lists.
- CC on the email treasurer@noisebridge.net and secretary@noisebridge.net if there are new members and philanthropists.
- Edit the Current Consensus Items if anything is proposed for consensus next week.
- Edit the Consensus Items History if anything was reached consensus or failed to reach consensus this week.
Fun things to do after[edit | edit source]
- Reprise of the Hackernationale. [This is anarchy - we do what the wiki says!]
- PGP Key Signing could happen now (if it doesn't happen before any given Meeting). Ask others around the space or check the list to see who wants in on the action.