Meeting Notes 2021 11 23

These are the notes from the The 655th Meeting of Noisebridge.

• Live notes
  • https://pad.riseup.net/p/nbmeeting
• Virtual Meeting (jitsi mic/cam off by default)
  • https://jitsi.noisebridge.io/hackitorium#config.startWithAudioMuted=true&config.startWithVideoMuted=true&userInfo.displayName=%22n00b%22

Date: November 23, 2021

ALSO EDIT PREVIOUS AND NEXT DATES IN THE WIKI LINKS BELOW

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Note-taker: TJ Moderators: Woz

• One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary.

Meeting Summary

FIXME FILL OUT AT END OF MEETING AND SEND TO MAILING LIST TLDR what happened at the meeting:

• Fundraising Update
• Announcements:
• Finances:
• New members:
• New philanthropists:
• Consensus Items:
• Discussion Items:

Introductions

Woz - Leon - Steve Elan - work on a bunch of projects. Do a lot with wiki community Claus - they them - do everything mediocre-ly TJ - he/they - Doing some server work. Will do AI Class Ronald - Random code and stuff. Check out Arduino tetris game and voice app called Mutations. Sal - class physicists now doing AI in cryptocurrency Vanki - he/him showed up first time yesterday, like ML stuff, try getting into electronics-y stuff JD nthmost - Something please

Short announcements and events

60-second description per item in bulletpoint.

Examples

• Chuck: Starting a new class on Thursday nights called Let's Fight About Category Theory. 9pm. BYO Whiteboard Markers.
• Roxy: One night only discussion on Feminist Hackers coming up this Saturday at 8pm. Free zines, stickers, and slingshots.
• Albert: I'm taking a long bike ride next week and drinking some stuff I accidentally came up with while making tea in the back. Must sign waiver to join.

Excellence

Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.

Excellent to be good. Watch Bill and Ted. All neuro-atypical, but we should talk to each other and (Not?) do stuff to PO others

Woz - I think one of most excellent thigs to do is help keep space allivee longer, or avoid thigns that make the space not last longer or leave forever

Claus - Take out the trash

(What does that mean? How does the Anti-Harassment Policy fit into this? Are we SURE we know what being Excellent is? This is an important and fundamental conversation at Noisebridge, so let's give it like 120 seconds.)

Participation

Everyone at Noisebridge is a participant at Noisebridge.

(What does that mean? How do you get a door key? Access to Slack, Discuss, etc?)

Anyone and all can use space for free. Except laser cutter maybe. Don't do anything except come in and be excelelnt. Onliune presence, Slack, Discord, and Discuss. Also mailing / IRC for the old school (IrC doesnt' exist). Get on Slack, talk to someone, likewise with the other two (Discord and discuss link are online).

Nobody officially in charge, let someone into space, you have to be responsible for them. Don't have to let ppl in, bnut it is excellent to do so.

Woz - If not participation you wanted, then speak up

Do-ocratic Task Board

Participation also means doing stuff to contribute to the space. Pick some tasks from github, from what needs to be done around you, or whatever, and see if someone will sign up to work on that task. Anyone can sign up and it's a great way to show you are contributing!

(INdividual update on items)

Claus : currently in process of server reorg. Called repo callen UnicornMIgration on Unicorn with all plans actions thus far. If anyeone wants to be involved, lmk, and we'll set you up

Woz : We need access to NB DNS, if anyone knows how that works, lmk

Leon : Books mostly sorted, one box to sort. In process of building another shelf and adding it, then it's time for long term thinking/robot for robot placement.

nthmost : What does the space need?

Woz : Lots come to mind.

Keypad mounting to front gate.

Claus : Needs to change code sligtly, update

tJ : also, studs need to be secured in front gate

nthmost : Did you ask Corrie (guy who comes in when needed)

Just see our task list

Philanthropists

A Philanthropist at Noisebridge has earned enough trust from the community to open and close the space.

(What does that mean? What do we expect from Philanthropists? How do you become one? etc)

Leon : Two things: be ok with being the last person, comfortable with asking people to leave. NEed to be more in tune with what is involved. Need to apply, and be a big "M" member. ALthough I like the term bureaucrat.

Steve: Steward? Is steward better?

Leon: Yes, I like steward. Wos: I don't want people to have paternalistic attitude, so I don't like bureaucrat.

Steve doesn't like bureaucrat because its dismissive, and a negative conotation, and steward is positive. TJ Historically membership has always had a negative connotation.

Leon wants to become a philanthropist. No questions for leon. Ronald: What is gonna be your favorite part of being a philanthropist.

leon: being able to come without wondering if others will be. That seems like the only big thing. Yeah. That.

Woz: Do you see yourself spending more time at the space, and facilitating it being more avaliable to others.

Leon: I don't know how much I can do that, but I will where I can.

No blocks, Steve and TJ sponsored. Confirmed.

Woz: (collecting

Membership Binder

Membership in Noisebridge entails community Trust in Consensus.

(What does that mean? What do we expect from Members? How do you become a Member? etc)

Woz: Membership at Nb can block big C consensus. A little bit unspoken about MEmbership. Sort of a protector of the community, looking in more long term way. Standing back and making sure things don't go to far off the rails. I'm up for membership, today is final week. Don't like some of messaging we have about Memberhship, can talk about later.

Do we have any new Members applying this week?

Woz: Any questions?

lxpk: What are the issues

Woz: My issue is, on website, top right corner says "How do I become a Member of Noisberidge?" I don't think it's productive. Just show up and do things. Anyone coming in is a member of the community. Most aren't interested. Within recent memory, seen powers of big-M membership be abused imo. Can think of specific example. One person who shall not be named wanted to change how things worked at the space. "If you help do things I want to do , then I can fast-track you to membership"

nthmost - who was this

Dave - It was X

nthmost - oh of course.

Woz - JUst show up and become Members of the space. We get 3-4 Members per year. Don't put gatekeeping on becoming Member.

nthmost - Actually removed barriers. Only 2 weeks vetting, instead of 4. At beginning, if you just hanging around a motnh, then you'd be encouraged to be Member. Consensus, and Member dues. What has disrupted this is Philanthropy

Steve - more detail?

nthmost - the Philanthropist level of participation / previously the Associate Member.

lxpk - more people choose Philanthropy, so fewer Members.

nthmost - If we are saying Philanthropists don't have consensus, having few Members is a problem to me. Numerous problems with Philanthropists coming in quickly who shouldn't be. Dilution of trust. Overall ratification of trust network. Wasn't a big deal originally. Adding a bunch of emotional baggage.

  Steve - so iirc when we created Philanthropists, I remembered the general idea being "we need more money, but not memberizing ppl fast enough." Different from "people around a month, we mmeberized." Do you think when Phil was created, hard to becoem Mmeber?
  
  Naomi - Can't put myself in that time
  
  Steve - We made more $$ by adding Phlanthopist

ntmost we incentiviez that with access.

Steve- then we cooled people becoming Members

nthmost It dragged people away from the membership pipeline, there was nothing to compare it to, and there was a decent healthy membership at that time. I was wishy wasy, but it seemed like an experiment lets see what happens.

Steve- kind of like Membership used to be middle class, now Philanthropists are the lower class, resentful of upper class

nthmost - Sure, lets go with that.

Woz - If we had ton of Mmebers around, interesting. Not seen that before lockdown

nthmost - Members dropped because of Philanthropists. We created a system that atrophied Members. Fewer ratified ppl coming to the table like "Let's come to the new space" or other decisions. Doesn't feel good

Claus - As a suggestion: Moving away from Membership is disenfranchising. Simplest is to encourage application to Membership after become Philanthropist. Prevailing is it doens't help.

nthmost - tried that before, response is ppl don't wnat responsibility and reject on those grounds. My proposal, once I spend time here, would be to do away with that level (ilanthropy).

Claus - I feel like you wnat to make ppl Members, but they don't want to, doesn't accomplish antyhing

nthmost - they will bc expectations

Dave - the most accessible form of Membership is to just show up and be here and do stuff. I want to encourage that mentality, no beuracracy or special priveliges. Just come and do stuff. That's what I'm encouraging.

dee- THis is james, I'm sick, I missed the meeting and I couldn't help. My frustration is I never agree with anything, so I feel compelled to say something. The reason philantropist becamse a thing, membership was irrelevant years ago, all that matters is actions. The implication that the ones acting matter is true, and you feel empowered where you don't need to seek concencus, thats reality those are the people who matter. Membership is totally secondary. If you don't feel like it, don't be one, get shit done, you are the real power. Thats my suggestion. Membership is basically bullshit, just get it done, thats the power of noisebridge.

I Alex - I would second that and emphasize Participlant. I used the word that covers everyone, do-ocratic doer is the participant. Memebr exists for legal reason, same as board. That's how nonprofits exist. Coming up with funny names for it seems silly. Overwhelmingly emphasize do-ocracy and participation. That's the overarching thing we are in agreement about. Existing of thing we do bc required, minimum safety valve, doesn't make unable to participate. Someone could make good point, everyone can participate in consensus discussion. My 0.02, I don't think getting a certain way about what Mmeber is is necessary. Participant is participant, no matter what.

Naomi - Everythign that was said is a point. There is a danger of having too few emebers. When push comes to shove we are increasing the bust factor of noisebridge. If we have very few memebers, and the gov asks for signatures, it kind of sucks. Beyond the gov interface, membership represents a feeling of stake in how things progress, and encouraging people to pay membership fees. Thats the best way for NB to keep going without external reliance.

Woz - I want to get to the most important thing first. ONe thing that bothers me though is, when we look at our main website and its like how to become a member, and talks about all of this stuff you have to do. Thats not honest about how to become involved in this community.

Leon - Responding to woz/alex basically what alex said should be added to the text when we talk about membership at meetings. I agree with the messaging on the website vs participants, its a weird emphasis on becomeing a beurcrat rather than participation. Its important its very obvious what being a member is, vs what is a legally required member.

Garden - THe way we setup membership that makes it so a member can't be booted of except in extreme circumstances. We have ~100 members, its a big deal to become a member of noisebridge. Many people have said its not necessary, you can contribute in many ways. We have isntances where people have put energy into the space, and when they applied for memebership, when they were declined as a member that has completly blown up in the community, and create a major rift. I don't think we can survive many great fractures in our community. We are still rebuilding. The biggest and scariest point for me is that person felt intitled to membership. That felt like a really unhealthy expectation. I don't wanna see that be a factor in someones decision. If they are showing these are my contributions you should let me be a member. I would hope that hackers trying to become members will still provide their excellence.

Woz - Alex online posted like to participation wiki. You can join noisebridge by showing up.

lxpk - Wanted to check. I wrote some of the stuff. First and foremost, section is called "Participation". It says you can join by just showing up. Goes through higher rankings, etc. Does not say that Membership is a requirement.

Woz - If you google NB, go to first link, look at top page, top right says "Become a Member! " + FAQ. That's the crux of what I'm talking about. Nthmost, you're next

nthmost - that is somehting we can fix, put at the top of Memebrship page, "You do not need to become a Membership page". Wanted to comment that gigantic Membership schism was in context of a Noisebridge that introduced Philanthropy leve, and it was now a trophy lveel. Need to contextualize it. People associate higher level item as a status item. Takes emotional weight

claus - My response was to Woz and in agreement. To forward facing public, they don't even need to know. Informing about membership and Philanthropy. Come to meeting, you will understand. If we didn't put forward facing Membership, it would address what you are saying

James - I was thinking that for Membership, a real next step forward is to make active Membership a thing with real weight. Encourage those who are active within the community already to become Members. There can be an expiration, like 6 months or a year. Asking ppl to be responsible for the space as leaders should include an expiration that then drops them back into philanthropy. tldr Encourage ppl to be members from within the community.

JD - Second what James just said. Something that can be done for community. Don't power trip. Is there a thng that is minimum time frame for Philanthropist (like 6 mo or two years, then we consider application)

Naomi - or automatic conversion. Tbh the philanthropist who is a Member and one who is reverted is specific.

TJ- I have a couple spit takes. Tieing memberhsip to the space. I would like to emphaize this conversation is tangental to the point. THe point was, is woz fit for membership, we can talk about this later, JD wants to talk about laser cutter stuff, and some people are intrested in, I would like, we do have a quorm if this is necessary for Woz to be memberized, but the crux of this was should woz me a member

Woz I have other things, but in light of TJ, thanks for bring it back. I think that these are a lot of itneresting ideas and I would like to have a prolonged dicussion maybe not in the meeting. Any more questions for me about my membership application?

Garden Do you have your app here? Can I read it.

• shuffling of papers*

Claus - also, if interested in server stuff, #rack is easiest way to join

Graden finds the paper fascinating

Any more questions? Also, the rules clearly state that the potential member must leave and bring back beer.

Woz leaves to bring back beer.

TJ - Does anyone have issues with Woz membership?

Garden who are the members, I am, TJ is, Steve is, 3 online THe onlnie members are the masked lords of waterdeep. alex - What would you block? He seemed to ahve good ideas.

Graden he wants to add 30 day users, and we have a philantorhipist++

james - @gaardn not sure that is available on our current rfid door access system fyi

TJ We were just talking about too many stages, and adding another stage

Garden we already have it.

TJ How do you become one?

Garden its documented somwhere.

Leon becoming a philanthropist++ exacerbates the membership issue. Woz seems like the very type of person to become a member.

Garden The most importnat part is for people who are members to be excellent to each other, and I have had to talk to dave about being excellent and I'm not comfortabe with him being a member.

Naomi LET ME elaborate!

TJ I understand your poit that there is a level, sure his needs could be accomplished with the extra stage, but I still think the most direct question here is Dave fit for membership. Its not whether he wants to. What is the best way to go about it. Is he fit? He has applied, I would say yes, he is just like one of the people running the space and hold things together at the space. I think he deserves it.

Garden Thats a red flag, that he deserves it. Previously we have had people who thought they

Claus - we had this Philanthropist+ that does door stuff. Philanthropists can extend but not give. Could bring that back, if we want

Steve - I don't remember details, he put RFID system, I could give 30-day access, but only Members could do so. He'd become a Member to give the access. somewhat a joke

Gaardn - could add to Philanthropy+

Claus - Could give Philanthropy even before

Gaardn - Could make good decisions in adding them, give them Philanthropy+

Steve - Does he need to go through any application to be Philanthropist+

Claus - The very nature of the space is we can communicate to Woz about something happening to the space,

Gaardn - Talked about unexcellent behavior, he has pushed back. Way he was talking to someone. Shouldn't be owed Membership

Steve its not the case the whole community thinks this shouldn't happen, but its Gardens right to block, and he isn going to see that.

TJ to be harsh in response, sure we are nice, but its this one person. THe logical response to this is memberize without Garden, and basically get it done without her and eclude her voice, or B say we as a community can't we would have to accep the consequences until we can convince everyone to do so. We either need to convince Garden at somepoint now or ater that Woz should be memberized or if we really want this to happen. The second is extremely unexcellent. Thats why I want to put in the effort to convince you of this.

Garden maybe we should talk about it after the meeting, I'm not 100% against it, the answer isn't a fuck yes, so its a no.

Leon isn't block a you couldn't be, not because your 80% there. That concept applies less to membership.

Ronald - what was the reason?

Garden - Its importnat for member to be ongoing excellent, and no blips on the radar that raise red flags. I might be fine with it later on.

TJ What you require then in order to change your opinon.

Dave - I would like to see no unexcellence.

Financial Report

Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and thrive, yo.

• Funds in bank:
• Noisetor (See the bulletpoints at the bottom of http://noisetor.net/finances/#summary):

Paul_H: (Sorry to hit the notes only, can't be in the call) Contacted Andy who has access to the Noisetor wallet. He says the funds there are not all Noisetor's. But if we can do some bookkeeping he will transfer the part that was donated to Noisetor over to NB. Or we can donate to EFF. Up to comunity consensus. Claus - do we knwo what is ours so that Noisetor person can give it to us. Woz - I think it comes down to what is for Noisetor.

• Any other details by those participating in handling our financials
• The latest financial reports from the treasurer are available at https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Finances

lxpk - Going to discuss with highest interest, lowest risk thing to invest.

Fundraising Update

How's it all going

- Noisebrew : https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Proposals/Noisebrew - lxpk : When we've had funraisers per drinks, donation replaces price, no one has abused that, so social cost of being the person who is guzzling drniks without donations is worse than paying. ALso, if NB does a thing in the event, using commerce donations, and giving things as formatlity has been done a lot - JD : Comment that looked into business of serving alcohol, could go into detail, if people have questions, lmk. - lxpk : I will foloow up for fundraiser - Claus: Could you write up what you can do? - Woz : Let's not put it in writing, just anonymously do it in Google Docs, or maybe in Slack - Claus : I want to stay within legal bounrdaris, but be aware of them - lxpk : We have some best practices from experience, it never hurts to refresh our memory - Woz : One thing specific to proposal, I see propane burner, we can use a hot plate - Gaardn : We can donate a gas burner for camping if needed

- CLaus: Need to put out etus, traditionally easier to use propane - Woz : if you disagree, that'd be fine - Claus : bring it to space whenever convenient, leave it somewhere downstairs.

Consensus

Consensus is how the Noisebridge Membership may change how Noisebridge works.

(How does Consensus work? What types of things are good for formal Consensus? What is small-c consensus? What is a "block"?)

Proposals from last week

(Add any items which are consensed upon or someone has raised a principle objection for to the Consensus Items History page.)

Proposals for next week

(Add any new items for consensus to the Current Consensus Items page.)

Discussion

== Discussion Item 1 == short term laser intentions --jd

JD - *talks crap about our camera* Have questions about laser, and what we are doing with it. I see there are efforts underway to get half-ass way tf getting something up to roof, but not permanent solution of fume exractor. Pipe going to outside of building, what is that for, who gets to use laser. Is it instructors only, pipers only, etc. Unclear on what the goal is.

lxpk - Always been up to those who do it safely

JD - Laser cutter list is super long. Going to do that as short term thing, in order to re-acquaint ourselves with training, I'm wondering if we are letting ppl in to do personal projects, keeping others off.

Woz - JD, afaik, the people who are working on that were primarily Lovi with Brocoli's guidance. It would be best if they could speak to their intentions. They might leave / undo everything bc of drama. What I gather (ymmv), we sohuld do-ocratically get to mission goal as soon as possible. Wasn't trying to exclude people. That's all the info I have

Claus - I think we all realize that if laser if functional, people will use it. Shouldn't set barrier. It should be acceptable for all (who are trained obviously). Encourage that we wipe slate clean for people using laser, and restart

Gaardn - I wholly agree. We should have trained pepole only using the laser. Itcan kill everyone in space if it goes wrong. We should also retrain people, because people on the list haven't used it in a couple years.

Claus - Also, ventilation is a nontrivial process, they migth screw it up

Woz - Fume extractor?

Gaardn - Expensice item, but could spend $6k. Got amazing deal on $9k fume extractor for $6k. Could do this until january. Can't wait forever, let's buy it and get it set up. Also se tup and train trainers, people can be fantastic trainers as is.

Woz - Was originally pushing to fundraise, we should buy outright if that is the awesome solution. Do think reconsidering upping recommended donation from $5 to $10 to make this fiscally responsible. That's just my reco. Would like to see Discuss post that we can point to on progress. Model #, how refills, etc. pyconaut was teling me that it would be additional $1k/month (year) for upkeep.

gaardn - it is per year. I have it all in the #laser channel on Slakc. It's the 1500i filter, you can look it up.

lxpk =- How big / expensive would it be for size?

gaardn - Fume hood or extractor? Extractor is related to bed size and what cutting

lxpk - looked at less /more expensive, and this is the best way to do it for the lowest cut.

Claus - it gives us flexibility to move it, so we can set it up safely without doing ducting / etc. I am in favor of permanent solutions in favor of temp solutions. I want to make the entrance more inviting and welcoming. Can we have a consensus item

lxpk - I'm in the process of this

Claus - We should start the consensus now.

Gaardn - I don't have time for the consensus item. We have to order it within

lxpk - WE've done accelerated consensus, if we ahve something we need right away, we'll make special exception

Claus - The assumption is that we have money, and we need to spend money on modeling / renovations, our spending is functionally 0. There is money we could use for this.

lxpk - We have done acccel consnesus. There is earmarked consensus for this.

JD - we've talked for 3 weeks.

lxpk - all we're saying is that we're doing this officially.

Claus - doing this right now means people miss opportunity on what's going on

lxpk - not full week, actually discuss whhenever. Treasurer can put brakes, don't need to go through 2 week process. if someone objects between now nad when we pull the trigger.

Woz - I'm not convinced it needs to be big-c, I'd like to see open forum discussion for a week.

gaardn - we had several months, I talked to ocntractor Oct 23. I've been on Discuss, slack channel. If we wanted consensus item, I've done it

Woz - Because pyconaut told me last week something different, that is telling me we have done a good enough job communicating this.

lxpk - If we do this on Discuss and everything, it could happen by next week or sooner.

gaardn - I want to do this by Friday.

lxpk - I think that's plenty time to get things started.

gaardn - Do we need this to be consensus item?

lxpk - I'm following same rules as lease. We did the thing, told people to stop, etc.

gaardn - Doing this this fast is bc we have

Claus - Is Friday differnet than Wednesday.

gaardn - I'd like to get done by Friday, if NB wants to wait, then we can wait. Do we

  Claus - Let's say we pull trigger on friday, what timeline for delivery/installation. Do we want to install before January/February? If we pay friday would it get here next week?

Gaardn - Pretty fast like week to 10 days.

Woz - Pretty low risk compared to benefits

Claus - but we have a working laser cutter. There are latent issues beyond just getting fume hood but it affects those latent issues. If we find it costs 1K/month worst case, we can have conversation about adjusting suggested donation. So maybe we can fast track ordering of the thing and donation suggestion comes out of how much filters are.

? - Maybe just a third or fourth opinion to take a hard look at it.

Woz - TJ you were saying it would be big c consensus item. Would you be okay if over couple days claus broccoli did research?

TJ - I'm aware of research being done so yes. If people not on slack want something to see.

Woz - sounds like we can wait a few days [to find out] and write you a check.

lxpk - I would like to have a discussion for any further vetting, otherwise go on it

Woz - Discuss is for concise summary, rather than all chain of conscious

Claus - $8200 for extractor, filter is $945, replacement is $270

gaardn - It's an annual replacement.

gaardn - I'll bring up the quote. over $9k, shipping, taxes, hose, etc. Shiping includes truck with lift gate, since we don't have receiver for that

Woz - We have pallet jack

gaardn - lol that's adorable. It does have castors, so we can push around

Woz - Do we have conensus? (YES!) It is conensed.

Claus - IF we're ordering fume extracotr, then we should move to permanent home correct? So we should stop ventilation project because not neccessary.

gaardn - Are we waiting until friday to hold it. Also, that's the soonest day, so why not?

Discussion Item 2

lxpk 0 fundraiser discussion is ongoing, idea is January, early February. Goal of accelerating participation growth.

Claus - I'll brew the beeer if you get setup

lxpk - New year's is possible, trouble is people already make plans.

lxpk - Most commercial events suck . Are we ready to do fundrasier by new year's

gaardn - could do both NYE and Valentine's

Claus - we brought up labor option

gaardn - I have one tiny thing. To comply with by-laws, we need board. Have 2 o f5 minimum, 11 max. Wanted at least 10 people of wide variety of interest. Would like board election by end of year. Nominate someone who does nothing. One person got nominated walking in the front door.

lxpk - We wanted to nominate a dog too. He was the second person to come in.

gaardn - totally valid way to nominate. Channel is v/board, nomainate someone.

End of Meeting

Note taker posts the notes

• Clean and tidy the meeting notes including removing all these really verbose instructions.
• Fill out the short summary at the top listing just announcements, consensus items, discussion topics, and names of new members and philanthropists.
• Copy paste the notes to the next meeting page. (They will become Last meeting at midnight.)
• Email the meeting summary to Noisebridge Discuss and Noisebridge Announce lists.
• CC on the email treasurer@noisebridge.net and secretary@noisebridge.net if there are new members and philanthropists.
• Edit the Current Consensus Items if anything is proposed for consensus next week.
• Edit the Consensus Items History if anything was reached consensus or failed to reach consensus this week.

Fun things to do after

• Reprise of the Hackernationale. [This is anarchy - we do what the wiki says!]
• PGP Key Signing could happen now (if it doesn't happen before any given Meeting). Ask others around the space or check the list to see who wants in on the action.