Meeting Notes 2022 04 26
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These are the notes from the The 675th Meeting of Noisebridge.
- Live notes
- Virtual Meeting (jitsi mic/cam off by default)
Date: 2022_04_26 as below
ALSO EDIT PREVIOUS AND NEXT DATES IN THE WIKI LINKS BELOW
- One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary.
TLDR what happened at the meeting:
- Fundraising Update:
- nb-donate now allows donations to specific projects but need someone to update the database to add these projects/accounts.
- Final call for board election
- #noisebridge-does-cool-things Place to announce/recruit for projects
- Stephen - wanted to move meetup groups here, Sat 12:30-3:00pm. Bring engineers, designers, artist - show up and work
- New members: n/a
- New philanthropists: n/a
- Consensus Items: n/a
- Discussion Items:
- New laser cutter
- How to get more people? Project Recruitment
- Cooking / sleeping at Noisebridge?
- Permission to move our makers meetup groups to Noisebridge
- Incentivizing important NB projects
- Ask people to share their name, access needs, and preferred gender pronouns during their intro, i.e.:
- Mark - moderator tonight, do games stuff, has been coming for a little while, leave a comment after meeting, like and subscribe, ring the bell for notifications
- TJ (he/they) - AI and robotics stuff at noisebridge
- Dane (he/him) - accessibility needs are met, teaches communication, zines
- Elan (he/they) - he they, does wiki stuff and combating disinformation
- Jon (he/him) - looking for projects!
- Naomi (she/they/dude) - writing a book about hackerspaces, quit job so will be around more, discord bots for internet radio stations
- Stephen - lurker, software testing, organizes a bunch of meetups.
- HB (hungry bogart) - BBS for NB (Check it out!!) having a project is important to them
- Chris - lives in SF, hangs out in NB, into maps, 3D printing, visualizations
- Matthew B - used to do 3d thursdays, wants to get involved more and do woodworking
- Carl - lives in eastbay, worked on flashentaschen, BBS game in the 90s. Working on getting funding for a new hackerspace
Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other.
(What does that mean? Everyone is expected to follow the Anti-Harassment Policy, please familiarize yourself with it.) TWO MINUTES MAX
Don't be a dick. Golden rule is a good reference point. We are constantly exploring what this means as a community.
Short announcements and events
- 60-second description per item in bulletpoint.
- Copy-paste any pre-announcements for the upcoming meeting from Announcements.
- After announcements, copy them to the past Announcements list. Retire any from the Next Meeting list that aren't marked ONGOING.
Final call for board election - if you are a big M Member, get an invite to the election channel on Slack app from TJ (@culteejen). We need a Quorum! Trying to give it another week!
Check out our Meetup.com for groups that do regular events! - Thursday is Book Club being run by Farley (also running circuit hacking mondays) Subscribable calendar for NB Meetup events: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=v4694n2t0jmpg2i9i2fck7uiuq2oo8f7%40import.calendar.google.com&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles
Dane: Will there be a punk show here? - May 10th (residenident electronics show?) - #general
- noisebridge-does-cool-things (slack channel): "Place for announcements, discussions, and recruitment for cool projects!"
Elan - Really quick, it'd be cool if there was a place to announce and recruit people to work on projects you are kicking around
TJ - I want to do a "work on the space day" each week.
Marks - I will be doing a Tues "work on the space" as well. If you want to announce a project and recruit ppl, discuss or discord is a good place. We can talk about it in the discussion section maybe?
HB - I am usually in the space on Wens/Fri and try to work on the space. Let me know if you want to coordinate.
Mark - effort to do things on Thursdays
Stephen - wanted to move meetup groups here, Sat 12:30-3:00pm. Bring engineers, designers, artist - show up and work - https://www.meetup.com/LetsMakeStuff-Engineers-Designers-Artists-Makers-Creatives/ - https://www.meetup.com/SanFranciscoDesign/ - https://www.meetup.com/Drawing-Painting-Concept-Art-Viz-Dev-Sculpting/
How many people? Around 15 show up. Post-COVID, put more effort in cultivating a group over past month. Around 4,000 combined members via meetup.com
TJ - Consider permission granted. We will work out the details and figure out how to promote it.
A few thousand people between the different meetup groups.
Naomi: Are you currently a philanthropist or member? Not a requirement but this role would essentially be a steward of the space bringing other people in, and being a "bridge" more or less for them... Stephen: Yes, currently a lot on my plate at the moment but definitely interested.
TJ: Have other people (Romy, etc)...
Stephen: - I am an organizer more than a technical, I could always use help as well. TJ: Not sure how to link events on Meetup but can create a parallel meetup in our NB meetup group and will post internatlly about it. Mark: If you provide a link we will post internally on discuss, wiki, etc.
What are they? Is anyone trying to become a philanthropist or Member? If not move on. No long discussions.
Everyone who walks into the space is a member but there are also other levels of involvement which provide access and entail more responsibility.
TJ: We had someone apply for philanthropy last week but she is not currently here. I will sponsor.
Mark: Philanthropist gets 24h access and pays monthly dues. They do not get ability to 'block' consensus items.
Naomi: Philanthropist requires only one Member sponsorship. Full membership requires two. There is also a slight waiting period for big M Membership.
TJ: Chris will be eligible for Membership next week. Others are also currently eligible. Woz/Les will also be applying soon.
Chris currently has a sponsorship by TJ and will need one more for Membership.
Naomi will sponsor HB for membership.
Anarchist societies under a capitalist state need money to survive and thrive, yo.
- Funds in bank:
- Noisetor (See the bullet points at the bottom of http://noisetor.net/finances/#summary):
- Any other details by those participating in handling our financials
- The latest financial reports from the treasurer are available at https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Finances
Elan - I got a pull request for a bug fix in our project donation page - need permissions to write to the database or something like that, gonna ping ppl, but if anyone can help would be appreciated
When we moved in, there was a consensus approved to make front door accessible. I talked to some people, they are coming in Friday to fix it up. Looking at $500-1320 cost potentially. Claus and JLB are possibly trying to fix it beforehand to maybe save some $
Gotta spend money on XYZ (i.e. Gate, wiring etc.). WHO CAN SIGN THE CHECK OR LEND THE CREDIT CARD!?!?! It doesn't matter if we agree to do something and it can’t be paid for.
How's it all going
HB -who works on grant writing for NB?
Mark - Ryan/Pyconaut was trying to work on that kind of stuff.
Elan - was an effort, but nothing seems to be super actively pursued.
Mark - there is a #fundraising-wg channel in Slack - ping them pls
Big C Consensus Items
Nobody likes 3 hour meetings, only explain if people ask
Nobody speaks up.
Consensus Items 
Only for talking about Big C consensus items, small c consensus items should be discussed with people at the space at the time of the change/new item.
1: New laser cutter
Sophia saw someone pinged us on twitter and is getting rid of a Glow Forge and we would just need to pick it up. https://twitter.com/nichom/status/1518624440921509889?s=21&t=ipmeYyflozQ_Y7hCetAO3g
Would need to get people trained on it and maintain it but would expand NB's capabilities.
Naomi: How big is it and where would it go? Chris: 2/3 of a common desk. tabletop (~2 feet x 4 feet)
TJ: perhaps against north wall downstairs next to cafe
Chris: About ventilation - haven't had a chance to ask the ppl if they have the Filter that goes with it. Mark: Are filters easily purchasable? Chris: Yes, haven't done it but it's an active company. Jon: Filters ~$1300
Mark: Might not be the BEST idea to put it next to the bar, near food stuff potentially We can talk about where it goes more in the future
TJ: Alternative space might be next to VR and the current laser cutter.
Will figure out filter situation / location.
Naomi: transportation? we have a friend with a truck if that's a holdup.
TJ: Want location to be prioritized as it doesn't end up in a corner somewhere.
Chris: check #laser in slack for ongoing discussion
Note: Mark: Things are crossposted Discord/Discuss --> Slack but not in the reverse direction Elan: Could have things posted in reverse on a per-channel basis.
Elan: Is current laser operational?
Chris: Not quite yet - inching closer and closer by the week. Planning to have training and classes soon (TM)
2: How to get more people? Project Recruitment
Mark: Recruitment!!! How do we get people to come into space and work on cool shit?
Dane: (Aside: we need a locker cleanup)
TJ: In order to avoid discussion item #3 happening we need more people in the space to make everyone more accountable
Naomi: In order to spread the message of NB you need to get people to have a sense of ownership. Hence why fixing Membership
TJ: People are interested in and excited about working on projects at NB. False equivalence exists between being uncertain of whats going on versus not being interested. We need to identify which is what
Naomi(resident old person): There have been a bunch of different ways of getting people involved. 20% of the people are going to be doing waaay more than the rest. Not everyone you bring in are going to be interested in developing the space. Previously (at peak NB) the majority of people came in through classes and then stayed after and got involved. It'd be surprising if 50% of people coming for circuit hacking monday to get actively involved in NB but some will.
Publish on public facing : Fun Cheap SF, shows, Meetup, etc.
Elan: To the effectiveness of punk rock shows - some of them have come back and just to hack that's all
Naomi: That was sort of the idea of guilds is to give people an approachable entry point to NB for their interests.
Dane: Could also push things on social media accounts (our Meetup account brings in new folx for events, maybe post on other digital outreach websites ?)
Naomi: when we try to go big on social media, 2 problems:
1) ROI on social media effort doesn't seem to terribly great. Instead, we have success leveraging people's in-person networks, communities, and such 2) NB hasn't been able to sustain the effort, because people drift in and out, interest in maintaining accounts wanes, etc 3) Meetup (and other outreach) greatly increased attendance of CHM
Elan: I think I originally heard about NB through the meetups, but past (and new) projects we've done as a group should be showcased more and could get ppl excited about coming here and doing more. Let's do public art/projects!
HB: Public art is a great idea. I'm a visual artist and have been active in many mediums. I'd definitely be interested in doing some graffiti art if ever we could do something like that.
- Elan: I would love to join you on this!
TJ: 5mof YOUTUBE CHANNEL!! Let's get in a documentary and on news sites!
Elan: Let's cover the front of the building with LEDs!
HB: Just a note that high school kids despite their reputation attend coding clubs on a regular and could be potential stewards of the space given the right guidance.
Chris: One thing we could do is upgrade the office furniture. Some people have come by and love the idea but for working on things it's not as good as a cafe (a bit rundown).
Mark: we were just talking about throwing out some of the jankier furniture.
Naomi: there's an event in portland where people light up their bikes with LEDs and they do a massive ride through the city. Its cool and people love it and love seeing it!
Elan: Romy presented a projector project at 5mof. Basically they crashed east bay bikeparty with LED bike projects as a way to introduce people to SudoRoom
Mark: 5mof is a good promo tool. Get more people to do it and to attend.
Naomi: Should sync up with DorkBot.
Mark: Project recruitment.
TJ: We should create a formal list of projects we can advertise.
Elan: I was thinking we could have like a channel where people post crazy ideas to see if they can generate interest which hopefully coalesces into a project.
Naomi - what about github issues (page as a forum for this)?
TJ: We moved from github to Trello bc it was super easy to login and do stuff in. everyone has access. you can just add items and stuff.
Mark: I like the idea of an projects idea space
Mark : do we have a project help channel?
Elan: Not on Slack, Discuss isn't as addictive because no pings - TJ / Naomi / Dane : haven't been on for a while. - HB: I only go on for specific reasons. - Mark: Used to use it but not as much reason. - TJ: Some people exclusively use it
Mark: Worth checking in on Discuss to make sure to include those people
Naomi: Would be nice to send things out on nb-discuss mailing lists. - Mark: This was used for consensus items right? - Naomi: *scoffs* Everyone should read that for history knowledge purposes (esp 2014). Other spaces would read our mailing list to feel better about their own internal drama.
3: Cooking / sleeping at Noisebridge?
Naomi: What's going on with this? Mark: There have been a number of cases of people sleeping at the space. Elan: There was a couple using the space as a hostel. Mark: If the couple shows up we can talk to them.
TJ: A couple weeks ago someone commented that the kitchen was gross. Someone helped them clean up and it was great for about a week. I don't want it to be that sort of space. It's off-putting to a bunch of people coming into the space.
Elan: On that note sort of, some members have said to me things like they like the space but they have to act like people's mom and clean up after them.
Naomi: well that's not Excellent.
Elan: The space shouldn't be a 'tragedy of the commons' situation.
Mark: Spoke to victor about this about "should we employ someone to keep things up"?
Naomi: This discussion has been had before. The usual arguments are: if you employ somebody, it creates a sort of "servant class". No bueno. Make sure if NB hires someone they DO NOT be involved with NB whatsoever.
TJ: Our empathetic response would not be as high for this person.
Naomi: Also could such a person even make sense of this space?
David : Could have two people do the cleaning.
Dane: What if it was a Member responsibility? That might put undue stress on members or something?
TJ: In most collectives there's a rotation of duties.
Naomi: Traditionally we've solved these systems by thinking about the systems that are operating at Noisebridge and treat the undesired results as entropy. Instead of blaming people, design systems that reduce this entropy. e.g. think about the distance of the trash cans from the table.
Ryan: We need professional help (to move some of the larger items)
Elan: I'll save for next NB item (#6), were there more thoughts on cooking/sleeping? From what I've been told, there are issues with if Noisebridge is a place people can stay. Not residential, we can't legally be a hostel.
Mark: We can't be your house. You can't chill and do nothing (Just to clarify, I mean that this is un-excellent generally speaking, and should try to be worked on with people)
Chris: Don't have problem during daytime hours, becomes legal threshold we cannot pass without getting into sticky water. Like "you can sleep here, it's fine." Zoning issues and such during daytime, but day turns night it's illegal
Elan: Not sure if people'd bring charges (people who don't like being neighbors or have a grievance against NB)
Naomi: Oh yes. It was 2014 when someone we banned retaliated and went to the city to file 3 different formal complaints with the city, which led to 2014 reboot. Including people were residing illegally.
Too bad we don't use email list, sort of a historical record. I still don't want to use it though, heh.
TJ: I don't know if we should have an oven/stove in the kitchen because it promotes more using NB as a living space. Over the weekend I stored it away and that potentially should have been a consensus item.
Ryan/Monte: Food hacking is a form of hacking. Maybe there's a compromise, where people in good standing have access or there's some kind of usage log or something?
TJ: For example the kombucha project: someone came in fermented it for a few weeks and then it was great - we had kombucha. How do we differ that sort of food-hacking from using it as a living situation.
Ryan: We shouldnt be so quick to abolish cooking in the space
Ronald: I think the propane grill was great for events. Perhaps a rule that would help with this is require any food must be for sharing.
Naomi: We currently don't have a proper expectation of behavior. It is lacking right now, but it has existed in the past. Previously the kitchen was to the point where they would film cooking videos but behavior was enforced because there were enough eyeballs. But NB also has dismantled its kitchen before. The culture has changed many times. What is the ROI of having a kitchen because cleaning up after people has the real cost of burning people out. There's also a difference between an imaginative view of what could NB have a kitchen that does not cause other to burnout. In CCC for instance there is a culture/expectation that does not result in others being burdened by it.
Ronald: Cameras in the space and AI
Naomi: Doesn't solve the problem, trust me.
TJ: Who would be willing to be part of a cleaning rotation?
Mark: I am committing to doing some cleaning on Tuesdays.
HB: I already do this. It's part of being a Do-ocracy. It's not always the fun stuff.
Dane: There needs to be a balance of do-ocracy and accountability.
Ryan: I don't think could be completely accountable but would be more willing to take on small tasks that are well defined.
Elan: At a high level, the people who clean up after themselves will do so and clean after others. WE are at the point where there's mental cost of cleaning after others. Makes coming into space not as fun. We don't need to be cracking down on cleaning up, didn't do X, optimizing as many people as possible doing cool things. Coming up with systems makes people who are constantly fighting entropy. Need more people. Lizzard fixed trash can, so no more trash cans. Taking pictures, saying "this is what Noisebridge should look like". Those are all good things.
Mark: There is #space-cleanup channel in Discord now
HB: Policy of "clean whatever you see" . Do a quick policing of the area. Sometimes pick up a few things.
Mark: Something I do when I greet people (we should greet/welcome people) is explain excellence. It's a nice way to introduce people to the space.
TJ: I think there will always be this problem. Instead of telling yourself to resist temptation we should create systems to prevent it. Rotation might have issues with blame but coming up with weekly to-do items that have to happen no matter what.
Naomi: Mary Poppins. (Computer that shouted at people to cleanup) - TJ: people would shutoff mary poppins
Naomi: We should have a cleanup after this meeting. I've been hesitant to do this as I don't know where things should go.
Ronald: potentially bigger/expensive item: the floor gets really scuffed/messy
- resurrect mary poppins - Create channel for weekly Noisebridge chores
4: Permission to move our makers meetup groups to Noisebridge
/Details for implementation ~~ Mark: Make sure you do the traditional noisebridge way of announcing an event at least: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Hosting_an_Event
Mark: Can this be an offline discussion? TJ + Stephen: yes
Stephen: Excited about
6: Incentivizing important NB projects
HB: I want to buy a satellite and run exit nodes in space.
Elan: I added this item because i got some people to come look at the door on Friday. We had the parts but no one wanted to work on it. claus and jlb wanted to save NB some money, so they wondered if they could get reimbursed somewhat for the labor, if they fix it before Friday?
The question is: can we offer bounties on some things that need to be gotten done but aren't getting done for whatever reason?
Ronald: In one way, it could save the space oney, in the other sense, (it is transactional??? idk what he said)
Elan: What about other NB infrastructure? E.g. the website.
Ryan/Monte: I would support a bounty system if we could put in some limits. For instance, bounty could not be higher than value of involved objects?
Elan: Just wanted to bring this up as an idea and get a temperature reading.
Mark: Who would pay the bounty? NB? Or the person who wants the thing done? Elan: Not sure.
TJ: This has always been a touchy subject - employees of the space. Monetary rewards have different motivating ways for different members depending on a number of things (e.g. employment)
Elan: It could create a weird cultural situation potentially
TJ: Why don't we try it and shut it down if things go awry?
Mark: People putting forward their own money seems sufficiently anarchistic. Naomi: You could probably get a collection going depending on the projects.
Naomi: There are culture issues surrounding paying people to do things (e.g. the founding principles anti-capitalism). It might be a way to create a more egalitarianism outcome.
Mark: Could add a bounty list on Trello. I'm offering X to do Y
Naomi: Who would be responsible to verify/pay the bounty.
Mark: Probably whoever put forward the bounty. Noisebridge's Trello is just a conduit for communication.
Ryan/Monte: NB should not be involved in this transaction.
Naomi: Employing people directly makes taxes waaay more complicated.
Ryan: There should be proper lots of good and excellent communication between bounty poster and bounty adopter.
Dane: This is just capitalism of the hierarchy of people with money paying those with less money to do dirty work (economic hierarchy capitalist logic reinforced)
Loren: I see NB being asked to adjudicate after someone doesn't pay a bounty.
Ryan/Monte: Baseball bats
Elan: I will put something together for the front door.
TJ: Someone was 86'd last week for using NB as a chop shop for stolen bikes/scooters. Monte: I didn't hear anything back from Noel. Previously Noel didn't seem to think mediation was necessary. Mark: If you hear back then please let us know.
Do-ocratic Task Board
Participation also means doing stuff to contribute to the space. Propose new tasks or pick some tasks from Github, from what needs to be done around you, or whatever, and see if someone will sign up to work on that task. Anyone can sign up and it's a great way to show you are contributing!
Current In-Progress Items
Purge hack Shelf items - it was clean but now there are a bunch of Network nodes there
More signs to not park in neighbor's spots - maybe
Signage near entrance directing ppl to NB's online forums Elan: I added that, thinking it'd be cool to direct people to the online forums. Jon: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/NoiseQR(?)h Mark: I'll do it.
Ordering fly paper. - Done. Trash situation is way less janky now. No more flies.
Add Guilds/Projects to Noisebridge donate page. Elan - I got a pull request for a bug fix in our project donation page - need permissions to write to the database or something like that, gonna ping ppl, but if anyone can help would be appreciated
Create voting system for Noisebridge Board election - contact Farley, no one has complained so professedly going okay
Signage reminding people to clean up food/drinks in kitchen. - Mark
Other Lightup Acrylic space signage -Naomi
Figure out how to remove the .../wiki/... from Noisebridge URLs - backlogged
Make Trello --> slack bot to update progress on tasks. - TJ
Inventory / Remove Janky Chairs - backlogged
Make a binder with big Epson manual, attach it to the machine somehow - backlogged
Stephan: We should put task info on the relevant machines. Naomi: There is an app to add QR codes that you can print out and stick out
Installing Lightburn software on the machine for the laser cutter - Loren: I'll do it
LED sign in front of space - TJ
Get stop-the-bleed kit for woodshop. -
Inventories Lockers - ongoing discussion
Put CRT monitors up for adoption - mark/TJ
For the rest of the tasks check Trello.
End of Meeting
Note taker posts the notes
- Clean and tidy the meeting notes including removing all these really verbose instructions.
- Fill out the short summary at the top listing just announcements, consensus items, discussion topics, and names of new members and philanthropists.
- Copy paste the notes to the next meeting page. (They will become Last meeting at midnight.)
- Email the meeting summary to Noisebridge Discuss and Noisebridge Announce lists.
- CC on the email firstname.lastname@example.org and email@example.com if there are new members and philanthropists.
- Edit the Current Consensus Items if anything is proposed for consensus next week.
- Edit the Consensus Items History if anything was reached consensus or failed to reach consensus this week.
Fun things to do after
- Do a 10 minute cleanup, bring dishes up stairs and wash them, clean the bathroom
- Have some beers on the patio
- Prepare the next weeks' meeting notes
- Lick the walls. Or just draw on them
- sing the Hackernationale (this almost never happens)