Meeting Notes 2024 02 06

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These are the notes from the The 755th Meeting of Noisebridge.

Date: 2024_02_06


Previous Meeting

Next Meeting

Note-takers: Jatin Mathur, Loren

Moderators: JD

  • One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary.

Meeting Summary[edit]


  • Announcements:
  • Consensus Items:
  • Discussion Items:


  • Ask people to share their name, access needs, and preferred gender pronouns what they do at noisebridge


   In person
   * Victoria Leonard
   * Jatin Mathur
   * Wyatt P.
   * Johnathon Jackson
   * Daniel Bekler
   * John M Myers, III
   * Benjamin Hampikian
   * Julius
   * Brandon Haskell
   * Griffin Wong
   * John Potter
   * Eagle
   * Aadi
   * Quinn
   * Fromsa
   Online (Discord)
   * @mcint (Loren) 
   * @Lané (Eloné) 
   * @nullpointersf (Sam) 
   * @Wyatt (Wyatt)
   Ellen (ElleWrites)

Short announcements and events[edit]

(Call is happening in discord : #hackitorium (voice) not the usual

Arduino Day 2024 Looking for people who want to talk about arduino and talk about their arduino projects. Could use help also. Its in South San Francisco! On March 23, 3pm.


Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other. (Give a quick, 1-3 sentence summary.)

Be nice to people and clean up your shit.

Lead by example, follow Golden Rule. Be excellent TO EACH OTHER.

What does that mean? Please see our page on excellence!

Anti-Harassment Policy & Community Standards of Excellence[edit]

Noisebridge has an Anti-Harassment Policy Everyone is expected to follow the Anti-Harassment Policy, please familiarize yourself with it.) More approachable & specific guidelines, is one way to quickly raise issues which will be seen by people in Slack.

Brief Kudos[edit]

Recent examples of excellent behavior, say 3, unless the passion moves you. Jonathan for cleaning for hours

Big C Consensus Items[edit]

Nobody likes 3 hour meetings, only explain if new people are present. Safety Upgrades

Consensus Items [edit]

Only for talking about Big C consensus items, small c consensus items should be discussed with people at the space at the time of the change/new item or can be reserved for the discussion section of the meeting.

Item 1 Wholistic Safety Upgrades

Benjamin - My frustration with the RFID system is that I've been supposed to have been having a working RFID for months and it simply hasnt been working. I've been locked out, waiting in the rain at times, its been very frustrating. I dont like the idea of adding more RFID, like on the front gate. If we can't prove basic competence in one aspect, I dont think we should be trying to do more when we can't do one thing well. Suggests NB should use physical keys.

Jonathan - was at hackerdojo, was a member for a while, they have this thing called "passport". It basically is an RFID via your phone thing. Compared to having to make your own system, having to deal with repairs/ upgrades, this could be an option? It has lots of features.

S - I feel like we've had it as a goal to update the SHED system for the last 6 months, and yet we havent done anything about that. What about this consensus item will cause that to happen.

JD - this is a proposal to ensure we are on the same page about this concept. This is getting consensus that this is a direction that we need to move in in order to ensure individuals feel safer and that it is steps we all agree we should take.

Daniel - I've been working on building the system. It works for me. It seems like maybe a hardware issue. Like we should get you a correct type of card. Please reach out to me again/more if there is a problem I may fix. I can't fix a problem I don't know about. Mainly it is just me working on it mostly, I need help from more people.

Brandon - having a problem and not recording a problem is no reason to not move forward on something like this.

JD - reminder - this is a conceptual "are we moving in the right direction?" Details should be hashed out later on. This is a general consensus-making

Julius - Default to commercial so one person (Daniel) doesn't have to do everything?

Daniel - Agrees, but says commercial is expensive.

John - I also would support just buying a thing to remove difficulties.

T - Why don't we just fix the door first? Why are we talking about cameras first?

JD - Cameras are not the first step, but part of the crime/harassment deterrent. People know we don't have them.

T - Would not come here if he's being recorded. Not part of hacker culture.

(hackitorum group dropped from discord call)

J - I understand the reasoning and concept. If you installed cameras, I thinked you'd have to be made aware of it once you arrived. I don't think surveillance will make people more excellent. Its more about getting the knowledge and being given chance to act on it. I think there are ways to make this space more space that doesn't rely on this kind of tech.

T - Its a function of culture.

John - the "shiek" of the hackerspace vs the reality of stuff like city ordinances, outside authorities, etc. Probably more important we do things right over

Ellen - did want to point out that this is a self-selecting group. Folks are not taking some folks concerns into account and thats why we lose them. I have not always felt safe here as well.

Fromseh - The way i was introduced was by jillian, she did an awesome job giving me the knowledge of the ethos. After that it was up to me to act well on it. I think the source of a lot of problems , is a lot of people are not being introduced to the space correctly. Lot of people being let in, but being let down on that front by, say meeting organizers in a hurry, or whatever.

Jatin - I also found this place randomly online. If no one knows me, how does Fromseh's model exactly work? We read the signs, we already kind of know how to follow the principles. But if I was someone you don't know, how do you know whether they have read or heard about it and follow it? Are we going to watch people all the time while they are here?

Fromseh - yeah we do need to keep eachoter accountable. You see something bad, you call it out and hold them accountable.

Jatin - its a very flawed process tho. Doesn't account for all situations. My main point is words don't always mean the same thing to everybody, and we can't know who will listen to the words.

J - My first experience was walking in to the space and seeing the signage of all the banned people.

L - Cameras are to make this consensus easier when we have an issue. Right now these issues are frequent and difficult to deal with when they come up.

J - we aren't keeoing up our infra on this. Where'd those QR codes flyers go?

Good question.

Daniel - Badge/shirt indicating who to talk to would help, and increase accountability.

Jonathan - My experience first coming to this space. I was working in Seattle and took some time off from work one day, drove down here. Was welcomed immediately, there was a big party going on, felt very welcomed and comfortable in it. That experience is important for newcomers. Felt I was well-oriented.

Elan - So far convo has been we just need better orientations, but there is no current system of accountability. Anyone can get in basically. We are radically open as it is right now. Where it is currently is exceedingly taxing on people who are volunteering to make this a more useful space. Access levels would significantly lowe rht eburden on ppl trying to coordinate and

<-- 5 minute break -->

Julius - Javier - let's brainstorm as a community and continuing as a community, crisis management Jonathan - possible sign in sheet JD - what do people think is going too far in terms of surveillance, we're a self selecting group in this room and there's a bunch of people who feel uncomfortable to be here Elan - There was some exceedingly unexcellent behavior going on, taking the equipment and graffitting, people camping overnight.. etc. not good stuff, we're not asking anyone to be here all the time to protect the space though Ben - Daniel - not everyone knows about what's happening, maybe we should do better about what's happening Mark - not everyone knows whats happening all the time b/c not everyone is here all the time, maybe create a solution? how do we do that? culturally interpersonal solution would require a coalition of people or maybe a more technological solution, which we can also talk about, we tend to spread word about the most important stuff but some issues are sensitive Julius - bringing it back to technical solution, we are self selecting we are technologically oriented but I wonder if the RFID system without a camera system could be okay, outside identity with inside identity, in the initial conversation, I'm wondering if the RFID tag could be a good initial solution Elan - having a guest log could be a good low tech solution, who let you in, and who is responsible for you, keeping track at a low level and accountability is important in this respect and what is the minimal security measures that would be comfortable for people such that no one is stealing things or sleeping in the space Ben - in daytime hours, a guest list is okay but it would be difficult to keep up with Ken - if we have RFIDs for everyone in the space and someone comes in without the RFIDs then it would be difficult to be responsible for them JD - <> Brandon - it's a lot of responsibility Julius - machines will not let us increase our social skills Jatin - when issues are coming up, people felt they didn't know about it and we should try an iterative solution, if reports come in we should address them going forward and be iterative Ben - if we think about a store or anything like that, we should have a guest list for daytime hours Brandon - we're not a store though Fromseh - it's a human problem, if people are here, then people should be responsible for each other, if I see something bad happening, I would stop it, we don't need to build technology for human related problems, we need to make people feel safe, if you don't feel safe, you should talk to me Jatin - with your view, would you feel comfortable with an RFID system, closed doors, and a guest log for now, and if in a month, something hypothetically still happens, then would you feel comfortable with more measures Fromseh - this is the safest place that exists right now Elle - two things, folks that are willing to report, and there may be many reasons that people don't comfortable feel reporting (men as well) we don't know how many people feel uncomfortable or embarrassed and have not reported. When I was in the sewing lounge, someone told me someone was racist and also feeling like their reputation was attacked (clarification?) Elan - I'm just coming back to noisebridge and I have been feeling burnt out, let's set expectations of what this community is Fromseh - Elan - sexual harassment is not a one off thing Mark - can we agree that this has happened to people and it's a problem? Fromseh - I don't know the solution to this Mark - This is what we're trying to figure out right now Jonathan - in regards to reporting, I'm going to trial b/c I was picking up medication and someone said I was going to pull a gun on someone Javier - let's create a human solution to this, let's find someone who can help with escalation and create solution Julian - I've seen the QR codes and the posters, I would like to know what happens when someone scans the QR codes Elan - there is a team of mediators and this is all volunteer run, when I first joined, it was Naomi who said that Noisebridge runs on new people and burns them up, solving interpersonal conflicts is a huge process and if we can say that we can do away with certain problems with a technological process that'd be great Javier - if someone is a new joiner.. JD - we need to make it more apparent as to what to do, and it is posted on the wiki JD - security council and safety council is happening first wednesday of the month and you can be here online or in person at 7pm Quinn - JD is not trying to take control, he's trying to protect a community he cares about and respond to legitimate reports, needs of community Ken - it would be helpful to talk to one person in private about the incident before coming to the public. Council should be people who come here most often. Mark - please go to the council tomorrow to talk about the signage, how to improve it, the council should do it at tomorrow's meeting Julian - cannot make the meeting tomorrow Jonathan - how will NB vet accusations. John - my opinion on that since it is such a serious incident that the victim did request the matter be reported to the police JD - there's a lot of people on the council that there is a broad enough coverage to address incidents Eagle - there's multiple channels for people to come into the space, and for information to be desiminated (places on the internet, physical conversations.. etc) Tuesday meetings are important Javier - sometimes safety and security are interweaving, with safety, it's important to separate from conversation. Safety needs inform security measures. Julius - what are our threat models, the cameras are okay, they address some parts but we should see what specifically the cameras are solutions to Mark - no one historically, property is not protected, it's up to your own vigilance, that will probably not change Julius - I just want the equipment for Noisebridge to stay at Noisebridge JD - I've spent the past year trying to find solutions for trying to improve the safety of this space without security cameras and I've come to the solution that it is impossible to do so without the security measures I am proposing Javier - in my country, I didn't feel comfortable talking to the police Ben - if you are taking on the security for very serious things, we are not liable for anything being stolen, I would be concerned about extending that to other issues that I'm not sure we would be equipped for ? - Concerns are with respect to things that are repeated and we can't deal with. Current discussion is next small step. Mark - important items (equipment) of noisebridge, if large items are to be deposed of, community issues, there's nothing preventing them from taking large items Elan - how to get your feet on the ground at Noisebridge, what does it mean to introduce people to the space, during your tour, explicitly say if you have questions you are the person that is responsible, try and drive home the idea that we are capable of setting good examples JD - let's move on from this discussion, memberships and discussion items Ben - on the subject of memberships, I'd like to be a big M-member JD - get that together and for consecutive meetings, JD is lifting his dissent to Ken's big M member Fromseh - needs membership JD - fundraising guild and opens discussion for more fundraising, can we get more events for outside Wyatt: If anyone wants gate code, must be member.

Discussion Items[edit]

More bins for trash

Wyatt - I think it's good we have a trash but we need more trashcans Brandon - willing to help move it out JD - we will reimburse you if you get more trash cans John - fundraising guild, benevity, attempt to restart the fundraising guild, benevity is an account we already have Jonathan - few points .. jewelry making network Ken - one point, since we have associate members caring about the space who should have more measures in place about associate members caring about a clean space Elan - merit badges for people to clean place

2. Benevity & fundraising guild

John - Benevity can get employer donation matching. If you want to help, talk to John! Quinn - onboard to help Elle - use the fundraising channel to discuss, for the next meeting it'd be good to talk about the fashion show for fundraising Fromseh - doing my own fashion show on 3/5 Javier - doing documentary on natives of south Chile. Wants to show it here. Elan - find member to host it, co-responsibility for finding a time, pitching during meeting, discord thread. Can be a fundraiser. Mark, Brandon willing to help.


  • 1st?
  • Study groups for web dev/hackathons
  • Jewelery making, rings, etc.

Mark: will discuss later

It is recommended to post items for discussion ahead of time at (Check that the template for the meeting is in place already, and that last week's notes have been moved to the wiki, of course)

Item prompts should follow the format: From/Raised by: [your name here] Seeking [decision/outcome/advice/something else] On topic: [topic]

Discussion Item 1[edit]

From/Raised by:wyatt Seeking On topic:

   can we get some extra bins for holding the overflow trash outside while waiting for pickup? We often have too much trash for our bins, we usually catch up but it ends up as bags all over the porch in the meantime. Do we have instructions on the wiki about where to take stuff to the dump if I make a trash run this weekend, curious what we normally do on Saturdays.

Discussion Item 2[edit]

From/Raised by:john Potter Seeking On topic: fundraising guild and benevity

Do-ocratic Task Board[edit]

Participation also means doing stuff to contribute to the space. Propose new tasks or pick some tasks from Github, from what needs to be done around you, or whatever, and see if someone will sign up to work on that task. Anyone can sign up and it's a great way to show you are contributing!

End of Meeting[edit]

Note taker posts the notes[edit]

  • Clean and tidy the meeting notes including removing all these really verbose instructions.
  • Fill out the short summary at the top listing just announcements, consensus items, & discussion topics.
  • Copy paste the notes to the next meeting page. (They will become Last meeting at midnight.)
  • Email the meeting summary to Noisebridge Discuss and Noisebridge Announce lists.
  • CC on the email and if there are new members and philanthropists.
  • Edit the Current Consensus Items if anything is proposed for consensus next week.
  • Edit the Consensus Items History if anything was reached consensus or failed to reach consensus this week.

Fun things to do after[edit]

  • Do a 10 minute cleanup, bring dishes up stairs and wash them, clean the bathroom
  • Have some beers on the patio
  • Prepare the next weeks' meeting notes
  • Lick the walls. Or just draw on them
  • sing the Hackernationale (this almost never happens)