Meeting Notes 2024 03 12

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These are the notes from the The 754th Meeting of Noisebridge.

Date: 2024_03_12

Previous Meeting

Next Meeting

Note-takers: Loren

Moderators: Zoda

  • One or two bullet points of high-level meeting summary.

Meeting Summary[edit]


  • Fundraising Update:
  • Announcements:
  • Finances:
  • New members:
  • New associates:
  • Consensus Items:
  • Discussion Items:


  • Ask people to share their name, access needs, and preferred gender pronouns what they do at noisebridge
  • Moon - long-time hw hacker, turned SWE. Coming 10 months
  • Julius - coming a few months
  • Judy - writer's workshop organizer
  • Loren - serving as treasurer,
  • Store - putting in effort to make space presentable. Coming for a few weeks, broader hackerspace community, for much longer
  • Wheezy - find my game. fun fun fun
  • JD -
  • Zoda - working on NB now, Software engineer,
  • @twiceasnice / Nicole -
  • Asher - :)
  • Cloud - 5mof'er,
  • Elan - work on wikipedia stuff, and ..
  • Daniel - @solderfumesandtea, electronics for door, gate/phone
  • Griffin - work on software stuff
  • [chatbot] - hi everyone chatbot here i used to come to noisebridge but its been a long time so im new but trying to be more involved i like electornics and programming!!!

Short announcements and events[edit]


   1. on a positve note: mapp: performance project April 7, Saturday. Every 2 months. NB is in a cool transitional state, we could make the space freakin super nice and spring. we can be helping and productive and contributing to our community. Sring cleaning.

The 2nd thing:

   October is Makerfaire - Use spring cleaning to use as a launch point: We have won EDITOR CHOICE AWARDS BEFORE!!!!! to be recognized is a big deal. Let's do a spring cleaning in a few weeks. NB make super nice state. No personal projects. Nothing ugly allowed. 

NB15 prep. See #nb15.

Event: Pixel Art Workshop[edit]

Trey, digital artist, bob ross, happy little pixels. Busy this month, early next month.



Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other. (Give a quick, 1-3 sentence summary.)

What does that mean? Please see our page on excellence!

Anti-Harassment Policy & Community Standards of Excellence[edit]

Noisebridge has an Anti-Harassment Policy Everyone is expected to follow the Anti-Harassment Policy, please familiarize yourself with it.) More approachable & specific guidelines, is one way to quickly raise issues which will be seen by people in Slack.

wheezy defines it as emotional intelligence

Brief Kudos[edit]

Recent examples of excellent behavior, say 3, unless the passion moves you.

Kudos Zoda - maintaining a level-head through last meetings repeated, escalatory yelling

Loren - keeping a level-head & creating writers event on the wiki, enabling full participation via the wiki Daniel RFID

Elle, BK, others - cleaning up after fashion event

CNC - from Wyatt, (thank youu). New one can do Aluminum too. Safety classes to come soon, ask Ben for more info.

Discussion Items[edit]

Discussion 1: funds from 'fundraisers'[edit]

From/Raised by: jd Seeking: advice On topic:

It seems like people host events, say it's in the name of noisebridge.

The money from Club Mete sodas. Fundraise for the event? $30 is apparently the amount coming to treasury. Sounds like this would be 6 bottles at $5.

Fromsa. Sponsor.

Elle: checked in with Cheick, does not have any information about funds from the fundrasier

Fromsa, at the event, announced that - all ticket sales - portion of all item sales - (something else) would go to noisebridge

Space was packed. Full hackitorium. Probably over 50 people.

If we don't get all the sales, then that constitues fraud, in the handling of all those funds.

Wheezy has reached out. "If he doesn't reach out within 24 hours, then that's a concern."

We have recorded proof of him saying all proceeds will go to noisebridge.

Policy question may be the bigger question.

This is why is so important for all the members to know each other, trust each other. When it's just "do-ocracy, anarchism", it --- [seems not to work as well]?

Moon: Can you bring something to the next meeting ready to discuss about this as a formal policy?

Elle: can I suggest, we have a longer discussion. Fundraisers are complicated, what we want for them. Loren pointed out that an individual class could bring in more money than 2 memberships monthly.

zoda: Policy - should be a backup. We should be trusting the people who host these events or not let them. Kinda sad that we have to wonder what happened to money and mates?

loren - The wiki, creating events, we can have a template on the wiki. Elle did something like this for the writers guild

People of noisebridge eventbrite page, not created by people handling noisebridge money offically.

(Pause for door closing)

Fromsa: Sold 3 tickets, gave cash from Club Mate to Elle (gave to Ken). Some expense in

From all the yelling last time, it's not surprising .

people of noisebridge - it's a personal account credential.

Can you do a budget? I don't need to. You can put that on paper. This is not a business, this is a personal project. It's a non-profit, all this has to be accounted for.

People are touchy about money, and concerns about people taking advantage of the space. Can you help reassure others? Or is this too much for the space to ask?

Events talk page?

Fromsa needs to give the login info of People of Noisebridge Eventbrite page (made by Fromsa) to

so Noisebridge can transparently account for the funds raised. 

(screenshot is fine, should change the name though) Event channel: look it up fundraising channels on the same subject fundraising channel beyond that.

Whoever is responsible for wiki?

message for JD - events

All your resources discord chat taking responsibility for that

Discussion 2: Unexcellence at Meeting[edit]

From/Raised by:JD Seeking: decision On topic: Benjamin

JD: People continunally ignored Ask to leave. Fomsa left the space Benji just stepped back in the doorway.

This isn't the first time Benji has been disruptive. Mediation meeting with sam and john. How much do we let this slide?

We let fomsa slide with a lot.

Time to stop, step back and think a little, at what was going on. How people were behaving. Do we want to ask people to take a break from the space so they return with excellence.

Last meeting was a mess - Some people asked to leave did leave.

lol Julius thinks nicole is new...

Zoda: It's not personal. NB is a place for excellent hacking, not personal, not respecting accessiblility. Context in a lot of meeting, n ot sure what to dow ith it. Quinn is getting

5 hours and 37 mins last meeting (March 5, 2024, Tues) 1. 86 mediation Sam and Sophia 2. Mediation: bunch of people were slamming doors, stomping close to people, physically aggressive, 3.5 hours. Mediators: Elan, Brenna, Zoda, and Loren and Sam, 5 people int he group.. (3 people were yelling seline, benjamin) 3. Every meeting has someone disrupting the que and did not respect ask to leave. 4. Sam got 86, because he is not willing to mediate. 5. John was 86 for other reasons. 6. Inciting violence, aggressive, every single meeting since then, same behavior. 7. Last meeting - John Potter was brought in, disruptive, talked over, Fromsa kept intrrupting and kept being asked to leave, fromsa left but came back, 5-6 people kept disrupting the meeting intruptting over and over again. 8. stone was also asked to leave. 9. People were blocked from leaving???

that friday meeting- Benji asked Loren to step outside and yell at Loren, in Zoda's words. Loren and sam both recorded the meeeting and will share but not online distrbute the recording publically...

Quinn: Those issues were things we needed to address. Sam and John - 86, to process as a community.

Sam sent a letter: all of my friends feverishly rushing to my aid when what they shouldve done was urge me to apologize.

Sam is threatening legal action, be wary fo communicating with him

Cloud - emphasize what Nicole said, that Sam has made legal threats, and he's used, just in February, lots of re-using peoples' words "against them". I wish I could laugh it off, many many names, most of active noisebridgers, were invoked to attack other people in the space. Lots

If you speak to these people you words will get twisted around.

Elle: Would it be helpful to talk to a legal aid group. Their threats should not stop us from enforcing our policies.

Nicole: Not a loss. Good for us to realize these threats mean nothing.

Sam threatened with Nicole with legal action.

Alex: Observered, concerned. Moon brought up: electornics space, freeze user joining, alt-account posting angry things on discord.

Loren: Account Annie Anarchist, Sam's - sockpuppet - pretty blatant, not really a concern.

Consensus - meetings we try not to specify because people don't follow it.

it seems - democratic enough - SFPD tresspassing on the space - should that number be on the 86 page so its readily referencable - place easily find it.

someone has a number - nicole... why

Should we have SFPD case numbers on the 86 page? (Broad agreement, yes.)

JD - Particularly respository to record unexcellence? should that be public or private

loren: Mutual ban policy with sudo-room. They have an ask to leave process for a year. Prefer not making it so legiable how far you could push before being banned - More systemic issues sudoroom - a year.. could not hear

It turns into the public shame board seems like a new thing to optimize for - networks of people -

Loren: Public facing - one way of working on this: personal accounts: anyone with process of these user pages - requests for the space - these are my words - but I am one person if other people can check these - agree or not -

zoda: Practically, speaking this is happening now. What do we do about misbehavior in meetings currently?

Alex: Work on New people general idea - don't ask if they have read this pages - hint aggressively to these pages - not working and do work - people who join read these - tragic - tragic when a happy noisebridger didnt' know about past mistakes in the past:

Loren: Updating membership form, for initials from applicant: "I understand these standards"

ken had asked Fromsa to stay away so rest of us could go to the sewing room (informal, that was hersay) one week thing - personally think - did we discuss this here at the Teusday meeting? We do or we don't. Excellent if other people were asked to take a break for a while.

Loren: Metacomment discussion - anarchist thing works: if there is an issue to make a clear expression of concern - be the person who makes the claim - let the group agree or disagree and moderate it can work some other way comments have to come from someone - when a group doesn't no one takes responsibility nothing happens.

User pages, to give personal accounts of the things happening.

Discussion 3: Membership Status[edit]

I am removing this statement due to a request on discord from the person this concerned. They gave this statement:

"Several of the people gave the reason of "physical violence" for 86ing which seems to mostly stem from a misunderstanding with [another member] in which I accidentally stepped on his foot.

[One member] very understandably is quoted as saying, "physical violence should not be a grey area. I feel like this is a nonstarter. I support the 86.”

[Another member] also very understandably said, "Reality is violent people don't just wake up one day and "people don't like it when I wake up and violent they do it because they are entitled and do not respect that people are feeling scared they do it because they benefit from it. It’s not going to work.”

I have a lot of respect for [another member] making a point to mention that I did apologize to her, before going on to say it wasn’t about her and brought up stepping on [a member's] foot again.

Just based on the meeting notes, several members cited physical violence as the reason for taking action (which is a great reason for doing so!). It seems like something else is being expressed now, and because of the seriousness of those allegations that were made, I would like to humbly request that they are removed.

 If I am 86’d for the reasons now being expressed, then of course respect I will respect those reasons. I find the accusations of physical violence, no less, a consistent pattern of physical violence, completely bewildering and inappropriate. I have nothing against the people that said those things and would have said the same things if I had heard that someone else was physically violent in the space."

Discussion 3.5: Fromsa[edit]

raised by: loren seeking: decsion topic: fromsa 86

1. During the fashion show, Fromsa brought in Eagle brought in on 86.

2. Aggression toward others. As Elle says, accusing others of racisms

3. Bringing Benji as he was ATL

4. Use of sewing room in completely messy state for 2 weeks in lead up to fashion show. Making it unsuable for others.

5. Dropping F bombs all over the place discord and in person.

6. Encouraging others to break into the building when key was not available

7. Mocking women who felt unsafe in the space and -- calling people racist? --

8. "Noisebridge doesn't have rules, access to all ??. Come into the space and define it as I want to." ?? wip Basically commenting that it doesnt have to be excellent to others.

9. Another similarity: did not listen to ATL at the very least last meeting.

9.5. Yelled and stormed around that meeting on friday where beji and saleem.

10. Benji made it into an accusastion - I don't udnerstand how - someone who incited legal action over their opinion.

11. Fromsa encouraged someone else (crypto ben) to climb over the window.


If somebody is asked to leave ...

Bringing Eagle in (Eagle is 86).

Has anyone sat down with Fromsa and had a conversation? Fromsa don't come to the Tues meeting - palce you yell and interrupt people. and fromsa respected Ask to leave (he has self-respect). Frosma also agreed not to come to this Tues meeting because of last week's disruption.

Two options:

   1. 86 
   2. ATL?

For me: Benji is my friend he violated a rule. If you are asked to leave, you leave. But that was not the case for fromsa - he actually left.

But I am not in the sewing room. Fromsa is a hacker, he's doing things and not ripping things apart. If people are negatively pulling away to the space -they are out. If they are contributing to the space - Frosma would adapt more and listen more than the people we've 86-.

Elle: I feel strongly: key conversations many of them were insults. I see encouragement the same type of behavior as Benji: meetings and yelling.

His distrust of noisebridge runs deep. He feels that ATLs do not apply. He showed that at the fashion show. Had eagle come, walk the stage, paraded banned individual. Invited Benji to DJ. Had him here all night.

Lots of the fashion show, hidden f-yous to the space. "Beware the big M", "I am not a big M".

NO AUDIO Break into noisebridge when unable to enter

Based on half the standards applied to Benjamin. Fromsa aggressive towards other people. Aggressive -

Elan: It feels like a lot of discorse is discerning if they are capable of changing?.. ATL, 86 so much of the concern. We are asking you to leave for these reasons: if people apologized and what could be done. 'if someone comes back and says I am sorry' give someone the option escpecially after the ATL people reflect on it - and people have time to move on.

Julius: Youre playing mind games. Your expecting to hear certain things: they are expecting to hear certain things. Rules says I have to apologize - better idea for us to set standards - rather than try to

If someone could write an apology where the recipent acctualy accept it.

zoda: Same boat as Elle. I dont think he's capable of change / atl is not worth it. I keep hearing from a lot of people saying he is not as ammendable and reasonable. If he likes you, you think he's reasonable. If youre me and elle you dont think so. Lots of conversations we are having - lots of converesations is the ATL and 86, do we think these people are capable of changing.

Same rhetoric, same aggressive tactic as Benjamin. I think they should

I had a discussion: reiterate. 6 months ask to leave and then 86.

zoda: in support of 86. Nervous talking to him. Had to ask him to close the laser cutter, was nervous to do so. Same with entering the sewing room.

alex: it sounds like we have an aggreement about the ask to leave, so we could do that first to start.

the 86 conversation would happen next weekend. Consesus items are always 2 weeks; consensus of 2nd meeting.

People are wanting to motion to 86: would anyone today block that right now? Intel is sufficent: there is less severe behavior, more responsive. People who thought it was ATL blocked over?

Clarify: ATL is immediate, they cannot come to the next meeting. 86 is item for next meeting.

  • Volunteered to talk to Fromsa - Wheezy & Elle.

Closing: If you really feel there is a way this person could listen or change their behavior in a way that other people won't believe, talk to them and get a mor ae commitment to respect ATl on a new leaf.

If you belieave in fromsa's ability to leran from this; Thats the whole point of it not being instantaneous. Respond to people who don't agree to

julius: where does mediation fall in this process? This feels like an area - more ammendable - 86 into the space. Understand where that plays.

elan: If you have a conflict with an individual talk to them, nothign involving Noisebridge, just don't want to deal with them but Noisebridge is an ask to disengage is a formal process. Leave it there or request mediation which is intitated - Alice and Bob don't want to talk to each other, jump in - ask to leave is either a safety thing or you see a pass - those were the two places to get to the mediation - follow that process and get people to et something to agree to. At that point: some of the recent mediation: some parties were intent on pursuing an 86.

If conflict comes up,

Could someone else take over notes, I am crashing...

Someone apologize enough: it should be a requirement a 3rd person could stand up and advocate for this person to stay. Accusation: there should be a note: accusasion and racism and sexism and that should be a violation of unexcellence.

zoda: Part of the mediation process, Friday. Frist time I mediated: the way was some people were 'I would love to mediate and work with it" raised that - worked well with people who accepted that. Continiously changing cast of characters.

Moon did ask Benji to apologize and he said "I know what I am doing". "Don't have an ego" I would be defending him a lot more if...

Ask to Disengage, Ask to Leave.

The 2 times he was asked to leave, during the meeting. Came back.

Some uncertainty about asking to leave, sewing room.

Discussion 4: Access contol[edit]

From/Raised by: We-z Seeking: decision On topic: Access contol Purchase proposal, for access control We-z: Love Deadbolt. Proposing a new App: Level Locks + Price:350? or 280? We need access control. can access via app can be controlled via wifi can also program RFIC multiple admins Daniel / solderfumesandtea is open to it. Put it in the access control channel.


   * spent $100 on system made. Recently someone cut the wires, twice. Harden with conduits, junction boxes. Proposal.
   * open to it? is that what he said?


   hardened. No wires
   easy to remove people if they are not welcomed anymore
   also has key if software fails
   there is also webapp

Subscription? No. Similar pushback, like for cameras? Access before cameras.

Linked in discord already. Will add some more in Access-Control NFC cards.

Alex: Willing to pay? idk

Elle: 2 things. 1) Bruised on the front door recently? 2) Logs. Can be subpoenaed.

TK: side of being able to tracked.

We do know that people copied RFID keys.

Daniel: some people may have already copied a card.

$5 / ea card. 4 / $20.

Sewing room (or 3d printing).

Announced item 5: Preparing for maker faire && mapps[edit]

From/Raised by: Nicole Seeking: outcomes & advice On topic: Preparing for maker faire && mapps (Javier is involved in Mission Arts Performance Project on Saturday, April 7) (is there a "job fair" or openhouse collaboration with industry discussion? that could go with the maker faire?)

Go to discord and Slack to hear more.

  • Maker Faire
  • Street Fair before

Discussion 6: Signage, merch, event[edit]

From/Raised by: Moon Seeking: decision/outcome/advice/[?] On topic: threadless. pyconaut & beka. merch guild, signs, to buy merchandise.

right now in the red, get in the back: merch, events, membership, and ___ More signage on what is membership and what it means. The 86, dont sleep here, etc More policy, less friction to each indv member to remember all of this.

___: I had more signs before. And ??? what we need eot get out??? Moon: would love to work with you on this. 1. some of the signs are rando startups, maybe community board? 2. excelent signs are hidden 3...

Discord #wiki-documentation Suggest #signage channel be moved to Events or About space. Second, elle - moon have a much deeper conversation. During 5pm Tuesday meeting.

Elan - We chatted about this last meeting -- the important processes, like for events should be online on wiki. We have that wiki events page. In discord, pinned message exists but we should add that to the wiki We should have signage around the space directing people to discord and that wiki.

Based on previous issues with having people host events: Require people on discord.

Action: Let's have Event mentors!!

  1. events-support -> Forum style channel.

Intro documents: wiki user welcome copypasta, (event host copy pasta), posters, how to join class / guild.

Triplicate. Events, doing. Keeps space clean. Flywheel.

Discussion 7: formalizing conflict resolution workflow[edit]

From/Raised by: elan Seeking: let's make a flowchart On topic: how does conflict resolution work, how are rules made. how does .

Big C Consensus Items[edit]

Nobody likes 3 hour meetings, only explain if new people are present.

Consensus Items [edit]

Only for talking about Big C consensus items, small c consensus items should be discussed with people at the space at the time of the change/new item.

Full text:

Renewing Consensus Item
REVIEWING as of Mar 19th, 2024 Updating blocking requirement for big C consensus items from 1 to 2 people. Currently in order to block a big C consensus Item, we need only 1 member to block. We would like to update this number to 2 members. Perhaps the 1 member to block made sense when the community was tiny. It doesn't make sense anymore in our much larger community. If you cant convince anyone else to block with you, then maybe you just have bad ideas. The community should not have to make changes only folks with bad ideas think are good.
This change would be provisional for 3 months [from May 23, 2023]. Also would only apply for member proposed consensus items, non-member proposed consensus items would still be block able by a single member. Also only 1 member would be required to block new membership. Also if any one member would like to block, but cannot because they are alone, they can request a 1 week hold to defer decision for an additional 3rd week.

In the past, the extreme version of this. Was that someone constantly blocking. Would un-member a constant blocker. Past way to solve the problem.


No objections.

Until June 17th, 20024

Do-ocratic Task Board[edit]

Participation also means doing stuff to contribute to the space. Propose new tasks or pick some tasks from Github, from what needs to be done around you, or whatever, and see if someone will sign up to work on that task. Anyone can sign up and it's a great way to show you are contributing!

End of Meeting[edit]

Note taker posts the notes[edit]

  • Clean and tidy the meeting notes including removing all these really verbose instructions.
  • Fill out the short summary at the top listing just announcements, consensus items, & discussion topics.
  • Copy paste the notes to the next meeting page. (They will become Last meeting at midnight.)
  • Email the meeting summary to Noisebridge Discuss and Noisebridge Announce lists.
  • CC on the email and if there are new members and philanthropists.
  • Edit the Current Consensus Items if anything is proposed for consensus next week.
  • Edit the Consensus Items History if anything was reached consensus or failed to reach consensus this week.

Fun things to do after[edit]

  • Do a 10 minute cleanup, bring dishes up stairs and wash them, clean the bathroom
  • Have some beers on the patio
  • Prepare the next weeks' meeting notes
  • Lick the walls. Or just draw on them
  • sing the Hackernationale (this almost never happens)