Meeting Notes 2025 02 25

These are the notes from the The 801th Meeting of Noisebridge.

Date	2025 02 25
Note-takers	Cloud , Mark
Moderators	Loren

Previous Meeting Edit redirect [Last meeting]

Next Meeting Edit redirect [Next meeting]

• Lots of discussion --

Meeting Summary

FILL OUT AT END OF MEETING AND SEND TO MAILING LIST/SLACK/DISCORD Include: TLDR what happened at the meeting:

• Announcements:
  • Ridwell -- Brian has been sorting single-ply single-use plastics (chip bags esp) -- there will be an orange bin for sorting, but people are bad at sorting right now.
• Membership
  • Daniel -- 4th week -- new Member.
• Consensus Items:
  • (Drafting -- item on affirming guild right to refuse)
  • 2 to block motion -- passed, 2nd week.
• Discussion Items:
  • Call for designs, logos, Identity assets for DTG printing & murals on the fence
  • Drafting consensus on guilds & control of donations
  • Controversial Art & Standards of Excellence -- do-ocracy is good
  • Call/request for a return of the a weekly or monthly AI meeting
  • $150 (300 limit) to finish call/recording booth: do it
  • Direct to Garment (DTG) printing, by Nick
  • Woodshop wall organizer/coordiator -- comment requested by Loren
  • Pull-up/Dip Station -- parts are apart from each other. Let's assemble them, use it. - Julius
  • Request for public comment in conflict resolution from Ken.

Introductions

• Ask people to share their name, access needs, and preferred gender pronouns what they do at noisebridge.

• Loren -- talk to me about software infrastructure (monday meetups), or treasurer concerns
• Scott - he/him - visiting the space for the first time, was a oldbridger :D
• DJ - Super new first time at NB. (pls don't scare away -cloud) he/him. hands on craft, more skills, free most nights, Sun- Mon
• Jeff - student (they/them) rust - cellular automata - tech art - tech cs club host - coming in here for inspiration
• Edward - presendent of cs club - looking at hackerspaces and getting vibe for getting people together, USF, feel for scrappy (did he call us scrapp?) cool stuff, happy to here for the first time.
• Narcissse -collabroative fashion show
• Ahn - interest in graphics design tech, space finances, doors here at NB, feel free talk if want :D
• Weeeeezeeee - coder by day, muscian by night - coding in swift - electronic music in ableton - electornic music - LOOOVEEEEES NOISEBRDGE (donating to NB) -
• Marie - just moved here, recording artist, moved from NY city , NB for 1/2 week, recorded 13 songs at NB, done lots of shows, couple thousand listeners, 50 songs dropped, come to meeting need meeting for shirley, need flexibility - interested in membership - leaves space as clean as possible - respectfully before ramadan (help, need spellcheck)

[redacted] - ...... not really here, bc it is not a prime # meeting

• Brian - Usually cleans space, parts and pieces are, directs people, enviromental services, NB is doing their part and going through trash speperating different things, econology and gridwell, has woodshop background - find on discord -
• Mark - Do games, lots of games, all the games,
• Nick - Playtest video games, but came back, global jam got in here, direct-to-garment printing program, scouting for a few hours, discussed and stuff today. helped with music room too. set something up.
• Forkbomb - run another space in the city, robotics and edge AI - circut hacking things - makes music -
• Cloud - host 5mof.net -- every 3rd Thursday -- looking for someone else to takeover hosting
• JD - does stuff so no knows what he's doing, then turn around and said something happened
• Julius -- mostly do balloon related stuff at NB here, right now. Spacebridge, come launch them. Balloon animals?
• Daniel - doorhacking stuff, cool acccess control systems, hit him up
• Luis -- was active and around noisebridge, a long time ago, 2010-2013, including Dark Ages of NB. Super into Open Hardware for social and

• Asher Martin -- running ollama at home, want to see AI meetups again.
• Lucy -- Hello! I am an electrical engineer and hardware hacker that lives nearby. I'm trying to work on a microwave furnace at Noisebridge, for which I have all the supplies and tools to complete. This would let us do cool things like metal casting with mSLA resin printing, glass work, and jewelry making. I am also interested in maintaining the 3D printer area, which I've been working in for the last week. I have some notes on the furnace I'd love to add to the wiki :)

@autopoieesis on discord

Short announcements and events

• 60-second description per item in bulletpoint.
• Copy-paste any pre-announcements for the upcoming meeting from Announcements.
• After announcements, copy them to the past Announcements list. Retire any from the Next Meeting list that aren't marked ONGOING.
• (See https://www.noisebridge.net/ and https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Category:Events for events, and welcoming people)

• Julius - Two horizontal bars have disappeared. For project that is leaning against the NGALAC arcade cabinet.

• Brian - RidWell

Freestyle - prep is this - we are now using ridwell for the trash combination of what is going on we share the bins and trash for recycle and garbage - we have people still putting garbage into recycle - compost as well - we don't put compost seperate stinks - compost outside - instead of bunching up trashcans throughout the location, utlizing the bags - come in on trash days - has been seperating trash compost, recycle, garbage.

It helps speed up Brian's time to sort. Plastic chipbag - multilayer trashbag - sending it to gridwell - if you see plastic bag don't out it in trash - some individuals still throw away e-waste, and paint - pls set that aside cardboard - basket crate, seperately do not put in landfill household accepts that pls don't pollute the earth - better enviromental service We have not made a seperate on because recycle and trash is still combined - seperated in the facility - one or two cans in the future - put it for just plastic chips, ziplog, plastic liner, and attempt to see if it works. Getting combined regardless of how we are labeling it, seperation before trash day.

we may need a orange bin - labels. Seperate to see how this works out - see throughout the space combination- labels - trash - recycle - seperating at the end.

Loren: Where should batteries/ewaste put and look for with the right information? Lightbulbs and batteries - White RidWell container near the front- prepare it for up and coming. need to tranfser that job to other people do best can. (ooof pls do spell check for me)

Some PDF we could share on wikipedia if anyone wants to spread through discord - lets people know what Ridwell does, cans, single plastic, multip plastic, spray paint cans, paint products.

• JD: Filter for a lazer is SUPPOSE to be here, its' not. Stuck in a part of the country with snow.

• N (someone help me find spelling of name!!) : Fashion show: right down the street, love for NB people to be involved in April. Sponsor meeting -- first meeting of the month?

April,

• Mark: Little task if you need something to do - feel free to step up - no tech knowlege required just busy work for NB. Do-acratic task. If someone interested in secretarial things for NB - lots of things to do and not enough Mark to do it all. :c

• Loren: Florescent light tubes for dark places - 5-30 mins of work to walk around the space to see where is a good place in the spac e- get us excited about mounting lights in more places (useful places)

• Help revive do-acratic task. The white board. Influence what people help out with. Sticky notes galore. The task is on Github - dicussion open source - mark down - open enough so people could come in puvblically. projects internally - It's cool thing with projects different repos good enough labels because you could make your own filters.

Excellence

Our One Rule is to Be Excellent to Each Other. (Give a quick, 1-3 sentence summary.)

Seeking understanding push each other to be the best/journey. Excellence just means being your best to be considerate of the tools we share in the space and words you use to talk to people. Actions -

What does that mean? Please see our page on excellence https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Excellence!

Anti-Harassment Policy & Community Standards of Excellence

Noisebridge has an Anti-Harassment Policy https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Anti-Harassment_Policy Everyone is expected to follow the Anti-Harassment Policy, please familiarize yourself with it.) More approachable & specific guidelines, https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Community_Standards https://safespace.noisebridge.net/ is one way to quickly raise issues which will be seen by people in Slack.

Brief Kudos

Recent examples of excellent participation, say 3, unless the passion moves you.

• 13 songs, 1 week, first week, self-kudos
• Kudos to Julius for being consistent with Spacebriddge - great community bonding - people got together and bonded as community - interest.
• Ken woodshop wall volunteeers - thankful volutneering their time- getting it back to useable and quiet.
• Mark - people who did the door anonoymous -
• Fork - kudos to JD and Mark for doing things without expectations. front door! "Just don't **** it up!" -JD
• Weezzee - Daniel for being here for the 4th time this week

Zoning & Permitting Standing Item

Status this week? Helpful broad asks to the community? NB city bureaucracy WG -- JD & Alice, among others.

Nothing new from before, waiting on zoning representation to look at the plan. We need to be an industrial - planning department have not heard back - but still want to establish a meeting with office - move forward with that - we have been talking about this instead of doing it for the past few weeks -

Call that an aftermeeting follow up.

Read aloud in meeting, or variant: "Noisebridge is under threat by San Francisco bureaucracy. The exact nature of that threat has not been fully determined, but discussions with the city are ongoing, and lobbying may become necessary. If anyone who is attending the meeting this week has a close connection to Jackie Fielder or other officials, please speak now so that we can connect you to the working group."

Big C Consensus Items

Nobody likes 3 hour meetings, only explain if new people are present. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items

Consensus Items

Only for talking about Big C consensus items, small c consensus items should be discussed with people at the space at the time of the change/new item or can be reserved for the discussion section of the meeting.

Big C consensus is a formal process we partake in at these meeting Big M partake in it But every NB people is welcome to be part of the discussion. But only big M Do a lot of small c consesus when we just agree in the room But big decisions as a community, stewarts of community, big M have this one special responsibility of doing the formal vote of consensus. Two types of consensus.

2 member block

for only freeform motions -- temporary 6 month effect, renew

One member status to block - self rewewing item - need two members to block a consensus item - in light of what happened last year - requiring two people instead of one to block.

Objection: 6 month effect require two members to block consensus items. Consensus is always about encouraging people to find a solution that works for everyone this is meant to push members into having those members early and proactively instead of waiting for the meeting.

Point of conseusus is everyone should consensus. Unanimity (someone help me spell) You should be able to convince one other people why this should be blocked - if you can't - then the argument was not that strong. it's not as aximuatmically perfect (someone help me spell) - axiom? it encourages more conversation than the other system *consensus*

Words matter, the words we use to run the meeting and agree on who gets -- what rule do we set? Has been operating under unanimity - voicing that technicallity

   Seeking resolution to disagreement/
   Continue discussion until we find agreeable 
   "Replacing door" 
   

Big C consensus help move things along faster - as oppose to waiting for everyone to go along - point of consesus item is to move things along quicker to avoid frivilous blocks - ask and how are you thinking about your block. Requires you to articculate your reasons for blocking.

Broad agreement on a 6 month temporary block - two members block consensus. Current: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items

Update: Updating it to two members instead of one for block.

Ask history: What happened last year that caused this. Someone blocked a consensus process. Impede progress of organization abusing the process in that way - two people would have to coordinate to do something like that.

Meetings are for announcing agreements -- not for hashing out all your problems in - Wiki - who proposed it intially (publically there). Editoralize the text to identify who the author was. In terms of this thing overall if we present ourselves to egalitarian as we could be - but we put an immense amount of power to Big M members - by having have two people to block something - place more - of a level playing field (closer to it) Temporary - with culture - encourage the moment not wait to block things but advocate within the community -

Discussion of blocking history --

• Tim / video cameras

Membership

Daniel - 4th week of membership.

Do we have any questions - grilling for Daniel

1. How are you so perfect? - WZ 2. Help move box to 2nd floor. - ken / Yes 3. You are lining up to become a big M Member - if you wanted to block a consensus item, how would you do it? I need a collaborator to get my way at Noisebridge. Worry about 1 person doing their own thing at noisebridge. 4. What would cause you to block someone's membership? What could someone do to not be a member in your eyes? Variety of things: People who do not engage in mediation and conversations at NB I wouldn't support their memembership - if we talk and cannot have a conversation - you are not part of the community because you can't commune., Violating established norms of safety and personal safety and safety of the space, would not support membership of the space - would not support people who put the space in danger. 5. Would you block someone if had a disagreement with someone? Wouldn't block them - because my ideas will sometimes be unpopular and think that wants a voice at NB even if not everyone - contrary ideas at NB = Good. But limit here - idea of make NB exist in a way that harms people - something extreme - block -

6. How likely do you see yourself - member - evidence that may convince you otherwise - 7. Is there room for changing an opinion once its made? How likely are you to change your opinion with presented with enough evidence to the contrary? Strong belief in science - if outstanding evidence is provided to me - strongly held opinion - evidence important to change their mind - static world. 8. Is he going to buy us beer and ice cream? Honeywine,, yup. 5 liters.. good god that is alot.

Any blocks for Daniel's Membership? Daniel exit the room. Maintain access system. Surprised he wasn't a big M member. Positive interactions. Open floor to criticism. Great member material. You don't need to be a big M member to do things at Noiserbridge Ability to make honeywine was accounted for.

Seeking sponsor

• Narcissse

Discussion Items

It is recommended to post items for discussion ahead of time at https://pad.riseup.net/p/nbmeeting. (Check that the template for the meeting is in place already, and that last week's notes have been moved to the wiki, of course)

Item prompts should follow the format: From/Raised by: [your name here] Seeking [decision/outcome/advice/something else] On topic: [topic]

Discussion Item 1: awareness dip/pull-up bar

From/Raised by: Julius Seeking: Spreading awareness in the space On topic: Pullup/Dip Station

Two horizontal bars have disappeared. For project that is leaning against the NGALAC arcade cabinet.

Here is a picture of a very similar mode: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIF.w8xRdQsNSoJht4UO6Zqj1A%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=bcf916164fde24b4da9def07423a2b4382c771f633c03c7f66135049aa70565b&ipo=images

If you have seen them, or know where they ended up, please let Julius know where they ended up.

Discussion Item 2: Ken -- conflict & seeking public resolution

From/Raised by: Ken Seeking polling the group for an opinion -- person vs On topic: conflict & public comment

if someone in community post accounts of you that are not true or present you in a bad light and it turns out to be true, what should be the best course of action? Should it be a public apology/retraction? Making a claim saying that: Not true. In a unaffected of some sort if the statement was not made publically the reperation for this should be public.

Depends on the situation and the individual involved (private public apology) dependant on the person thinks is appropriate - not a one size fits all. they could chooose to beleive those comments. Some level good topic for individual for a small group to mediate. Hard for the meeting to process all of this.

Unclear: wording. Someone on discord that is stating something "untrue" aggitated the person in question.

Request for mediation. Mark leading.

Discussion Item 3: woodshop wall organizing

From/Raised by: Loren Seeking coordination, an organizer, event scheduling, public calls for volunteers On topic: woodshop wall organizing

Woodshop - blue - changes are happening - twenty sheets of drywall - whole thing - space behind - cleared out - those shelves need to find new home - they are not shelves they are tables - one will go here or two. Area behind FlaschenTaschen needs be Cleared - push away from the wall. Something now. Woodshop and flashentashan. Woodshop. Small actions pile up so that makes it so that flashentashan does not operate. A bunch of comms that are broken up. Box to put pi in - secure and nothing happens to it - junk happens to it.

Whoever are the OG FT ppl - try to keep that spot clear. Need a Reboot style cleaning - anyone has a vision compatible for how the downstairs could be better - you may have bodies to help you.

While we are trying to clean up this area behind FT, Ken will have truck parked out front of space, so it can be loaded with junk as necessary - make sure to coordinate loading stuff into truck with him!

Ken is around -- need to do some tonight, more materials coming tonight.

Julius -- advocate for return of limbolandia. general consensus Mark says: please propose in Discord #facilities channel.

Discussion Item 4: process for Direct to Garment printing

From/Raised by: Nick (outrightmental) Seeking excellence in making decisions about space layout for a Direct-to-Garment (DTG) printing area. On topic: Direct to Garment (GTD) printer in the space

What's the next big thing we expect from this project in the space?

(2 square yards of floorspace usage)
Stewardship of machine, ink is expensive.
Cool if it were a donation getter.
Concern about copyright violations -- don't put noisebridge in a bad legal position, especially selling that material.

   + Created wiki page at https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/DTG_Printing which I will keep up to date with all developments
   + I am bringing a RICOH Ri 1000 DTG printer here tomorrow around 3pm. I'll have a couple people with me to help get it up the stairs into its location on the 2nd floor, in the northeast corner
   + Creating empty space
     - Moving chairs to wall by sewing
       . Mark floor area with yellow tape
       . Informed writers meeting to put chairs there today when they are done
       . To avoid chairs breaking glass/mirror, moved mirror to landscape orientation on floor behind railing, also moved tall glass pane with writing on it (intended to attach to side of phone booth)
     - Moving phone/recording booth (ask Ken re building details)
       . I will help move the phone/recording booth project forward because it's in flux and occupying the space we're eyeing for DTG
       . There are light switches behind that booth to which it would be nice to have access
       . There's a nice mural behind booth, would love if the landing at the top of the stairs welcomed people with that mural and the DTG printing station in the corner by the window
       . Booth rolls, but it is too large to go into a door (e.g. music room)
       . Booth is mostly constructed, but needs to have a front face added with a 23"  wide door opening on the left side (so a person walks in and sits right down on the bench)
       . Glass door and hinges intended for this purpose has been moved into the booth
     - Moved "find a makerspace" sign next to the "Open Sauce" sign by the sewing room
   + Table for DTG printer
     - One of those desk/table things by the window is all we need to get started with the printer.
     - Power is available behind the booth
     - We will keep the printer covered in its location with a "installation in progress" sign and a QR pointing to the wiki page  
   + Plan for setting up printer
     - Put printer in place and ensure it is level
     - Plug in and turn on printer
     - Swap cleaning solution cartridges for fresh set of ink cartridges
     - Activate printer self-maintenance routine
     - Call RICOH and initiate a relationship with them. They have a legendary service department so I am optimistic that I can put us on the map for some local technician or shop and at least get someone on the phone when I need it, if not a visit, in the case that we need manufacturer maintenance

Tack on discussions

On the booth:

Can't fit in music room

We want to finish, $150 

Grant we could apply for -- reimbursement for up to $10k. One of many. Can give receipts for woodshop wall.

Consesed on $300 approved ($150 target) to make the call box usable, and excellent. Instead of left half-done

Discussion Item 5: weekly/monthly AI meeting

From/Raised by: Mark Seeking meeting On topic: weekly/monthly AI meeting

Asher: Weekly/Monthly AI Meeting Greyspace seperate meeting SHow interesting source on topic feed useful information - start thread somewhere - discussion well after the meeting - infrastructure on Mondays - LLMs and Machine learning -

Let's discuss more on

Discussion Item 6: controversial art, standards of excellence

From/Raised by: Mark Seeking advice for the space, working agreement -- temperature check, guidelines On topic: Controversial art in the space, and standards of excellence

Noisebridge generally tries to support a permissive use of the space as a place to showcase art from the community. Sometimes folks bring art into the space that makes other folks uncomfortable. Sometimes the people who are uncomfortable with the art respond by removing that art in ways that can be considered not excellent. We need to discuss the boundaries of acceptable use of the space as it relates to artistic content/unpleasant stimulus.

Some things were done to strife- difficulties - in the spirit of excellence we could find a better way to handle these things. 

prohibit - (ken) concrete and anoynomous example - one thing dission - different level of comfortablity "overstimulated, actual medical conditions that were affecting them with being bombarded by things they didn't want when they came to the space-flashing lights, etc". Sexually explicit depictions - lets just say that kind of stuff as well as maximalist and loud. sensory. not the subject material. loud. one comes to NB knowing what they are getting into. that doesn't mean you shouldn't be welcomed. 

If someone is coming around asking for art to be taken down - thorny subject - canned responses that may not -

Curious about hearing, anxious to say anything, happy to not say anything - reasonable

in this instance: this is not the most represenative case - agree with the person who raised the art - what is acceptable within bounds of an art event and what is appropriate at NB,

provacative, challenging, unplesant to look at - those stop being acceptable outside of that show - we did not do a good job of dileanating - it as put it permanantly without defacing it.

open and accepting to everyone coming in. Stated. Everyone is welcome at NB. Except for people on 86 list.

Effort to make everyone feel comfortable and safe here, now sex in the space is frowned upon in the space when it perhaps wasn't in the past - it makes for a hostile atmosophere for other people - can't assume that someone is prude because they don't like what is going on. Important going on erred on one side or the other, make people feel included - not marginalized - find theirselves being made uncomfortable - that said, people who just don't like the person making art on here and suddenly find their art objectionable. and want to make an issue out of that. its not as simple as that.

One related comment:

   i offense, concern, is people ceasing their donation, ceasing to return to the space, creating feedback loop, objections to people doing in the space. But we object to interferring to other people's ability to use the space. It does offend people. Potientially very unwelcome. Some people want to push on this. Harsh standard that is out of their hands. If it rubs people the wrong way, it is very unwelcomed. 
   
   It feels like we have two conversations. 
   Specific situation: I happen to agree with the objections to the context, the way those objections were raised were proving too much, I wish the person who had been more direct that it was the content that bothered them - hard general state of the space - did not appreciate that - solved itself in a docratic way - saved the pieces that people objected to disappeared off the walls over time - the comments by the artist - next to the piece, was sort of the point - provakative - not care about the response - but placed it to a permanant spot in the space. The sitaution resolved itself - if you are going to have a art show thats one thing - if you want to put it on display permantnly at the space - that is another thing.
   
   Passionate about - anybody that anyone feeling threatened or unsafe in any way has a way to voice it - tell us what is going on use your words - explain the problems. 
   
   hard part with that - you have those issues - are less infrancized in the space - discoverability is something we are trying to work on. "safespace.noisebridge.net" QR code, unsure who will recieve that. Hard to say "use your words" if people do not know how to go about it. 
   
   Say about: it is hard to account for all different personality type at the space. Conflict prone and conflict avoidant,, some people are combination of both. So the point is that people handle these things differently even if we set up thigns perfecctly for people to use... it doesn't mean - 
   
   We trust people mroe than processes than rules.
   
   In some way this needs to be left to docraacy - take down of wall. Excellent of how people solve issues theirselves or with their most trusted peers.
   
   Doacratic art critic (roll and paint) 
   

Doacratic censorship :D

Discussion Item 7: drafting consensus, donations and projects or guilds

From/Raised by: Mark Seeking to draft a consensus item On topic: Donations vs Projects and Guild control (r.e. draft consensus item)

drafting consensus - donations - verses projects and guild control - there is a draft consensus item that people should MARK POST IT GDOC

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JkvFKU3ODeFHbWrCUShc1N_7dcOE6s-AeAukZNmB2l4/edit?tab=t.0

Draft consensus items - on the wiki - titled guilde right to refuse - whether guilds have authority to refuse donated items - or items that are claimed to be donations of that nature - says that the proposal that guild that organizes the use of an item - return to the donor donations made to them - "greater weight than the donor or not train in the item donated" -

Blocked and discussed. hasn't been put on the current item page to be blocked trying to figure out better language. Assumes someone approaches the guide before - 3D printer that did not work - simple solution blanket statement any donations made to Noiserbidge - disposed of discretion of the guilde MAKE A BIG SIGN

Someone is responsible for donations or someone doesn't accept it. Already supported.

It is defactio already true, a person can just take something to the dump = its already true. It could be gotten rid of. This proposal doesn't relate to the way people actually interact with the space. Guild implies something about the guilds that is not true.

If you are doing something the guild is already doing that. Not the case that people should ban the activity in the space. Guild is suppose to be an additional layer of the space not a required channel that you have to go through.

1) 2) Ken will still

• #donations Discord.

Direct people to donation page: so we are more explicitly handling this.

Contingent answer:

   What would 

• How did the laser cutter get here?
• Already a requirement before selling

Donations & Disposal committee?  D&D?

Guilds are maintainers of spaces.

Question of how we handle donations to the space. What's donations, what's a personal project, what's dumped here? In clear, simple language, how do you identify.

Suggestions:

• We add to meeting template -- annoucements of what's going away soon, limbolandia.
• Every month or two, on repeating schedule, we do a dump run.

Julius wants the old door

Agreed

Discussion Item 8: designs, logos -- for DTG printer & murals on the fence

From/Raised by: Loren Seeking designs, a place/process/group to encourge, polish, publish & produce them On topic: Logos, for DTG printing & murals on fence

https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/identity

Want to create Noisebridge Graphic Design group/channel

1. graphic-design-wg